wesnoth
Encyclopedia Revision for TSG: Re-Revised
An encyclopedia reivision partially for TSG: Re-Revised:
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Explain BF (Before the Fall) in the calendar page. This is not used in mainline, but appears in the game’s code and can be be used by UMC or future mainline content.
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Made spacing throughout the encyclopedia consistent.
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Added a detail on Mount Morogor being the highest active volcano in Morogor, not just a random volcano. This makes it appear more sensible that it is included.
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Added the Island of Gaall and Isle of Omarath to Morogor, shown WoF. IIRC no other islands in Morogor are named in WoF.
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Mentioned Kerlath and the Far South at the end of the Wesnoth description.
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Clarified Kerlath is the southernmost province in the Westin description, not just a southern province.
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Added Southport to the Wesnoth section from the TSG Re-Revision.
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Mentioned farmland in the periphery of Elensefar, mostly to fix a minor nagging lore inconsistency where Elensefar is always shown on the island in the Great River in scenario maps, but is shown south of it in the large map of Wesnoth. Since there are usually some village around Elensefar, some farmland made sense.
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Removed the Southwood due to its removal from the TSG Re-Revision.
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Added the Vale of Blossoming Trees and Lake Aelin to the section on Southwestern Elves.
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Replaced "men" with "humans" in the Northlands description, which I accidentally copied from the old description. I see no reason for this not being gender-neutral. (Actually, these small changes could be merged separately earlier)
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Mentioned Saurgrath in the Northlands.
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Replaced Bay fo Jotha in Jotha’s descriotion with “South of Bitok”
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Added a description of the Mourned Hills which mentions Lmarig, as suggested by CelticMinstrel
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Remove explicit mention of Dunefolk in the Far South and mainline Isanbar.
Added a detail on Mount Morogor being the highest active volcano in Morogor, not just a random volcano. This makes it appear more sensible that it is included.
It does not really need to be included though, unless it is at least mentioned in a mainline campaign.
Added the Island of Gaall to Morogor, shown in the first scenario of WoF. IIRC no other islands in Morogor are named in WoF. The detail of it being southwest of the main island is my own, and not in the original WoF. (Edit: Omarath, which is mentioned in passing through story text in S1, has also been added)
Both Gaall and Omarath should be in the northwest (or at least northern) part of the archipelago so that Omarath is the northernmost isle in the chain. This was to make it the most likely spot for the first expedition from the Green Isle to have landed on (in TRoW's backstory) and without them realizing there was more than this one island. Since both Omaranth and Gaall are within the "Domain of Vladnir" they have to be relatively close together, as the archipelago is divided up into like 50 or so similar sized tribal territories.
Added Southport to the Wesnoth section from the TSG Re-Revision. Removed the Southwood due to its removal from the TSG Re-Revision.
It might be better to wait for a campaign to enter mainline in its finished form before making peripheral canon adjustments, since a lot can change while a campaign is still in development,
Replaced "men" with "humans" in the Northlands description, which I accidentally copied from the old description. I see no reason for this not being gender-neutral. (Actually, these small changes could be merged separately earlier)
Note that the word "men" is neuter gender in this context. It is a holdover from Old English with a certain stylistic appeal.
Mainlined many ideas from this thread with slight changes: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=52368&hilit=al+shizirad&start=45 Some additional lore is my own, and the name "Golden River" is my name for an important river that was shown in the maps from that thread.
I recommend sticking to the policy of not adding new canon beyond what is at least mentioned in the existing mainline campaigns.
Whenever a mainline campaign is revised or added, it almost inevitably creates canon changes, which unavoidably disrupts some canon-following user made campaigns. But if you add a lot of unnecessary canon, that means creating additional future disruptions for them which could have been avoided.
Omarath is currently in the northeast, which I think is fine. I will move Gaall north as well. The Mount Morogor thing is a small detail from a removed file called drakes.txt that previously existed in mainline. It is not mentioned, but I don't think everything mentioned should necessarily be in a campaign. It is ultimately very minor. I don't expect to merge this until the TSG Re-Revision is merged, so the changes relating to it should not be a problem. I understand men can be gender-neuter term, but I don't think it is often used as such in Wesnoth, and many people today more strongly associate it with the gender. I personally don't think contradicting UMC will be a major issue here. What has been added generally does not contradict most existing UMC in the region. A lot of this aded lore is directly taken from UMC.
The Mount Morogor thing is a small detail from a removed file called drakes.txt that previously existed in mainline. It is not mentioned, but I don't think everything mentioned should necessarily be in a campaign. It is ultimately very minor.
I think it would be very weird if the island were named after a peak other than the tallest one, so arguably the fact that the mountain and the island share the name is on its own an indication that that's the highest peak on the island. I don't see the harm it stating it explicitly here in the help.
I understand men can be gender-neuter term, but I don't think it is often used as such in Wesnoth, and many people today more strongly associate it with the gender.
I agree. There may be places where it makes sense to use "men" to mean "humanity" but I don't think this is one of them. (Incidentally, I spotted at least one other place in the doc where it's used – "named by men". This one is maybe less of an issue, as the gendered implications could be intentional here.)
I personally don’t think the Far South changes would prbably not contradict many UMC, and if so only very mildly. If a mainline cmapaign were to be introduced, it can be revised. However, as pointed out on the previous PR by Dalas, he small amount of players reading would probably want to read about the details of the world. While perhaps my effect hasn’t come across as well as I would have imagined, I intentionally tried to make these places come across as mysteirous, so that we don’t exactly know this is the case. I should prbably readd some phrases form the original proposal to evoke that feeling better, and change skme descriptions a bit for this.
This can be inspiration for UMC, but a little variation is not a major issue, and may even be expected. Ultimately, the encyclopedia appear to often be from a distinctly Wesnothian perspective. The Far North and Northlands are northern to Wesnoth. The Old Continent is old to Wesnoth. What the encyclopedia contains is an itnerpetation of the Far South, not necessarily a deifnitive idea of what it is exactly.
Personally, I don’t think something not being mentioned elsewhere is in and of itself a good reason not to add it. The encyclopedia is also there to expand on things a little. I can certainly understand there ade good points for having way less content there, but I also don’t think adding so much content would create a problem. There is already some content here and there in the encyclopedia unmentioned elsewhere, though it otherwise tiny. I don’t think that content requires or should be removed. @Dalas121 Perhaps you have some relevant feedback on the topic?
Left to my own devices, I wouldn't have added the extra Far South content, or pushed to add it - I don't think it's necessary.
But since you're interested and have been working on adding it, I also don't think there's any reason not to add it. It's helpful flavor, and can possibly serve as a guide for future campaigns or UMC.
I understand the Far South additions are largely unnecessary, but I don't think it would hurt to add them either. I'm enjoying adding this section, and will probably be adding it here, though the current section in certainly a work in progress and can be trimmed if things don't fit in with UMC, or for any other reasons. I also think this is some very interesting lore that fits in well with what is already in mainline.
I understand the Far South additions are largely unnecessary, but I don't think it would hurt to add them either
A problem here is that between this and #9188, the time and place of the dunefolk civilization is being needlessly set in canon before any dunefolk focused campaign has entered mainline. So if and when future mainline content (like Mercenaries currently on the 1.20 roadmap) changes it to any place else or any time else (for examples, on the western continent where humans originate or around the time of UtBS) then new user made campaign makers who built off the canon encyclopedia entries will have reason to get upset with us.
If for no other reason than reducing friction between mainline and user made content creators, it is better to keep the encyclopedia close to what is supported by existing canon and then update it once new and revised stories are added into master.
The Dunefolk are already canonically in the Far South. They are mentioned to be there in unit descriptions, in EI and other sources. Their existence around the time of UtBS or in the Old Continent does not contradict this. In fact, given their race description, the existence of them in the Old Continent as well as the Far South could make a lot of sense. The same could be said about their existence after the fall. Given the new Dunefolk campaign Mercenaries, if it is going to be set in the Pre-Fall Far South and significantly contradict this, I might limit changes to the Ashland, which is already mentioned in EI. If not, or if it does not contradict this significantly, I think the Far South additions can be added. Though keep in mind this can be revised later, and I don’t expect this to supersede any other mainline content.
Most likely this may be limited to the Ashland + 1/2 cities as initially planned given the campaign Mercenaries, if it set in the Far South. Once Mercenaries comes out I can revise the area further. If Mercenaries is set elsewhere, or would not contradict this significantly, I might consider continuing this larger Far South revision.
On the topic of the Dunefolk after the fall, I do think some sections should be created on the world after the fall in the encyclopedia, but probably not in this revision. I do plan on making further revisions with all of the new campaigns and campaign reworks during 1.19 to keep this up to date.
edit: I limited it to the Ashland, Serul and Th’arwya. Please tell me of you think there is any issue with that.
@Dalas121 At this point this revision is probably nearly or entirely complete. I might make small changes here and there, but probably not much. I’ll open this PR as ready for review once the TSG revision is closer to being merged, and it should probably be merged as soon as TSG:Re-Revised is merged. I will be making follow-ups for other campaign reworks and new campaigns throughout 1.19, and well as sometimes at other times, with the goal of significantly improving the encyclopedia by 1.20.
The Far South revision has been limited enormously due to potential issues with Mercenaries, placing Dunefolk too close to Wesnoth, and to allow for greater UMC creativity. I’m still uncertain if I should mention trolls/drakes and maybe an eyrie in the Mountains of Peril, but this probably will not happen. Many UMC add dwarves, wyverns and other creatures there and it might be best to leave it vague for UMC to expand upon. Isanbar is being added as small little detail to enhance the Sandy Wastes worldbuilding.
Thanks for any feedback!
Just wondering: where is this TSG re-revision being merged?
AFaIK its not being merged yet. That’s why this is going to stay a draft until it is.
Just wondering: where is this TSG re-revision being merged?
If you mean the add-on, I'm planning to wait on the PR until I've released TDG and finished getting feedback/making improvements to it. Firstly so there's more time to get feedback on TSG, and second in case any of the TDG feedback is relevant for TSG.
@Dalas121 This is now ready to review and hopefully merge anytime now, probably together with #9682