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wesnoth
Eastern Invasion
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[x] There's a bunch of ASCII quotes
'that should be changed to typographic quotes’ -
[x] S2: On the first playthrough a player might not look for the amulet, the objectives say
Get moving quickly.#4420 unshrouds the village near the amulet. Is that enough?
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[ ] S4c: The custom tod schedule should be mentioned in dialog or in a
[note]in the objectives -
[ ] S4c: In the new map there's a huge luck element about where the Paladin gets placed. The southwestern location is much easier to rescue than the southeastern location.
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[ ] S4c: the Death Knight has a 20-hex keep but recruits up to 6 units per turn despite having money for more. That doesn't make any sense in-world.
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[x] ~~S7a: hide_unit should be replaced with invisibility: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/1357#issuecomment-299798847~~ - #4420
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[x] ~~S7a: side 2 should be hidden until it arrives.~~ - #4420
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[x] S7a: During side 1 turn 1, once side 2 is hidden, it'll be obvious in the status table that side 2 is missing. Maybe that's ok.
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[x] S7a: when Grug joins the party, there should be dialog or a narrator message informing the player that two more Ogres were added to the recall list as well - #4420 adds a narrator message
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[x] S7a: Grug still has
upkeep="full"after it joins Gweddry (probably due to using[modifications]in[modify_unit][modifications][effect]apply_to=loyal, see #4137, and https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/4137#issuecomment-522270226) -
[x] Bone Knight has no attack icon for the "trample" attack
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[x] Orcish Nightslayer has no attack icon for the "kick" attack
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[x] S8: has carryover_percentage=40, is that right? It means players who play S7a and don't get Grug pay the carryover tax twice, once at end of S7a and once at end of S8.
I tested with :debug. If I win S7a with Grug I get Grug, two quick resilient Ogres, and 119GP carried over to S9. If I win S7a without Grug and play S8, I five Ogres (one quick) and 66GP carried over to S9. In S8 I flagged only one of the three villages but that wouldn't have made a big difference.
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[x] S7a: Grug doesn't get
upkeep="loyal"when he joins the party - #4137 -
[x] ~~S10: if at turn 1 you set "Delay Shroud Updates" and recall a cavalry unit, you can't undo the recall. The event where Dacyn warns the player not to recall cavalry needs [allow_undo]. (It would be nice if the engine did this automatically, for every event that displays messages and signposts and so on but doesn't use randomness or ask for input)~~ - #4420
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[x] ~~S10: the feedback thread and walkthrough are full of people saying they had to restart the scenario and play it already knowing where the enemy keeps are. Maybe change shroud to fog? That also makes sense in-universe since Dacyn knows the territory.~~ - #4420
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[ ] S17a: The objective is "Defeat Mal-Ravanal while Dacyn is nearby" but "nearby" should be explained
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[x] ~~S7b dialog: "Creatures from the deep, I summon thee to destroy this foe!" - thee is singular~~ - #4420
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[ ] S3,S9: maybe review the
last breath/diedialogs? -
[ ] S11 start dialog: maybe review the start dialog?
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[x] ~~S10: It's not clear where the stronghold is. Some dialog upon seeing the stronghold, and/or a map label "Stronghold" on the stronghold's keep, might help.~~ - #4420
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[ ] ~~S11: Maybe give Gweddry and Owaec red team color in their sprite even while they're side 3 (like Grug and Dacyn in previous scenarios).~~ - in second thought this might be confusing, to have a red unit that the player can't move? Let's forget about this idea.
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[x] ~~S11: The "Retrieve the stolen gold" and "Release the remaining prisoners" objectives should be presented as optional objectives, shouldn't they?~~ - #4420
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[ ] S11: when the cells are opened, it can be impossible to maneuver Owaec into a position where the AI has 0% to kill him on the same turn. In my case I had only two Cavalrymen in the eastern cell and Owaec was lvl2 about to advance to lvl3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/595917593370689537/2019-07-03-093724_865x786_scrot.png
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[x] Maybe add a narrator warning "Some scenarios in this campaign are not expected to be winnable on the first time through"? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=644564#p644564 https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=646867#p646867
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[x] Maybe reclassify the highest difficulty level as "Difficult" or "Nightmare" instead of just "Challenging"? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=644869#p644869
Added from @stevecotton https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18640&start=45#p646867 with minor edits:
- [ ] S1 is as discussed in this thread.
- [x] S2 has recently been fixed by removing some of the shroud at the start.
- [x] S3 has recently been fixed to hint to the player about the forced chance-to-hit at the start.
- [ ] S4a the assassin with the ambush ability isn't on the map, he just re-appears on a set hex on turn 6, so don't waste units searching for him.
- [ ] S13 you're moving through a swamp that's full of ambushers. But each ambusher doesn't move until you've found them, so adapt your tactics based on knowledge that's only available after save-loading and noticing that they don't move.
@ln-zookeeper Have you had a chance to look at this issue? Would you accept patches for the items listed in the OP?
Feel free to make changes, no need to take them through me (and wait a long time doing so), unless you want input/ideas on a specific issue. Here's some thoughts on a few items, though:
* [ ] S4c: In the new map there's a huge luck element about where the Paladin gets placed. The southwestern location is much easier to rescue than the southeastern location.
I think some randomization in situations like this is good, but of course the Paladin could for example be randomized between a smaller subset of locations.
* [ ] S4c: the Death Knight has a 20-hex keep but [recruits up to 6 units per turn](https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/c94abfaad1c24ad29c5be39b5baad9808b7ced38/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/04c_Mal-Ravanals_Capital.cfg#L135) despite having money for more. That doesn't make any sense in-world.
Unsurprisingly, the limit was likely added for gameplay and balance. The scenario warrants more of a constant stream of pressure on the player, not a single overwhelming mass of enemies. Of course, the number of castle hexes available for recruitment could be made smaller, too.
* [ ] S7a: when Grug joins the party, there should be dialog or a narrator message informing the player that two more Ogres were added to the recall list as well
Alternatively, you could create the two ogres on the map next to Grug so that they're visible at scenario end.
@ln-zookeeper Thanks for the go-ahead. About S4c, honestly, I'm somewhat reluctant to make such changes myself because I don't have any experience in making changes that affect balance. (How does one learn how to balance scenarios?) In the meantime, I've created an initial PR with some of the easier changes: #4420.
S8: has carryover_percentage=40, is that right? It means players who play S7a and don't get Grug pay the carryover tax twice, once at end of S7a and once at end of S8.
I'm looking at the history of this, and there seem to be two changes that increase the imbalance between a player doing badly and a player doing well.
- 5ef69805070f734a9f8a18fed159451f3aaff7c0 reduced the carryover from S8 from 100% to 40%
- 3a310fb214f4d5e02f7563c8691fd1a94c6149ee increased the carryover from S7a (for either route) from 40% to 70%
@ln-zookeeper and @Asheviere, I don't want to revert your work, particularly not without understanding it. But I don't understand the changes here, and they seem to be the opposite of the usual way for carryover to give diminishing returns to players who are doing well.
* [x] S2: On the first playthrough a player might not look for the amulet, the objectives say `Get moving quickly.` [EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420](https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/4420) unshrouds the village near the amulet. Is that enough?
I gave the player an extra turn to look around (on EASY at least) in #5496, which has been merged
* [ ] Orcish Nightslayer has no attack icon for the "kick" attack
This is a general issue with the Nightblade overall, that can also be seen when trying to use the Nightblade in UMC. I think I did see someone's UMC that provided it with an icon somewhere, though? But, I forget which one...
* [x] ~S10: the feedback thread and walkthrough are full of people saying they had to restart the scenario and play it already knowing where the enemy keeps are. Maybe change shroud to fog? That also makes sense in-universe since Dacyn knows the territory.~ - [EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420](https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/4420)
[...snip...]
* [x] ~S10: It's not clear where the stronghold is. Some dialog upon seeing the stronghold, and/or a map label "Stronghold" on the stronghold's keep, might help.~ - [EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420](https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/4420)
I also increased the turn limit greatly in my local edits to the scenario: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_mods/blob/master/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/10_Lake_Vrug.diff I left that out of #5496, though, as I couldn't get it to apply cleanly to the version on trunk.
* [ ] S11: when the cells are opened, it can be impossible to maneuver Owaec into a position where the AI has 0% to kill him on the same turn. In my case I had only two Cavalrymen in the eastern cell and Owaec was lvl2 about to advance to lvl3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/595917593370689537/2019-07-03-093724_865x786_scrot.png
I made changes to address this in my local changes, by nerfing the trolls greatly: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_mods/blob/master/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/11_Captured.diff I left that one out of #5496 as well, though, as, again, it didn't apply cleanly to the version on trunk (either that, or I thought that this one was just too drastic)
Who's currently maintaining EI? I note @nemaara modified the original post but doesn't appear to be watching this issue.
I can review the apostrophes shortly.
If you like to you can. I'll review any PR that opens but please do note that I have an ongoing project that aims to replace EI in 1.17.
- [ ] S4c: The custom tod schedule should be mentioned in dialog or in a
[note]in the objectives
@nemaara removed the custom TOD schedule in ab900b0; S4c now uses the default schedule.
- [ ] S4c: the Death Knight has a 20-hex keep but recruits up to 6 units per turn despite having money for more. That doesn't make any sense in-world.
I dunno, it kinda makes sense to me, but not really in a way that I can put into words...
- [ ] S3,S9: maybe review the
last breath/diedialogs?
Could you expand on this one? I agree that Mal Skraat's lines are kind of awkwardly written, but... I can't really decide how to fix them?
- [ ] S11 start dialog: maybe review the start dialog?
Would 62c4f64 and cff9f6e count here? See also #7040, which prompted those commits.
- [ ] S11: when the cells are opened, it can be impossible to maneuver Owaec into a position where the AI has 0% to kill him on the same turn. In my case I had only two Cavalrymen in the eastern cell and Owaec was lvl2 about to advance to lvl3: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/595917593370689537/2019-07-03-093724_865x786_scrot.png
Yeah I remember having trouble with this myself; I solved it in my local collection of diffs by just nerfing all of the troll guards heavily: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_mods/blob/master/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/11_Captured.diff (but, for whatever reason, I didn't include that one when I did #5496... I guess because it would've been too intrusive and made some of the dialogue look weird with the Whelp portraits?)
- [ ] S1 is as discussed in this thread.
I think ab900b0 and efefcd2 kind of addressed this one. @stevecotton WDYT?
- [ ] S4a the assassin with the ambush ability isn't on the map, he just re-appears on a set hex on turn 6, so don't waste units searching for him.
So... I take it this is just a request to adjust Gweddry's line at #L267-L270?
- [ ] S1 is as discussed in this thread.
I think ab900b0 and efefcd2 kind of addressed this one. @stevecotton WDYT?
I don't think so - the main point that I take from that thread is that it needed a lot of foreknowledge that Dacyn would disappear, and when and where he'd reappear in addition to knowing where the trapdoor will be. If there are dialogue changes too then it might already be fixed - I'll need to replay to test.
- [ ] S4a the assassin with the ambush ability isn't on the map, he just re-appears on a set hex on turn 6, so don't waste units searching for him.
So... I take it this is just a request to adjust Gweddry's line at #L267-L270?
Yes, or at least, that would fix it.
- [ ] S1 is as discussed in this thread.
I think ab900b0 and efefcd2 kind of addressed this one. @stevecotton WDYT?
I don't think so - the main point that I take from that thread is that it needed a lot of foreknowledge that Dacyn would disappear, and when and where he'd reappear in addition to knowing where the trapdoor will be. If there are dialogue changes too then it might already be fixed - I'll need to replay to test.
Well we've got one post of feedback that seems to think it's fixed now, at least: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=679210#p679210
S17a: The objective is "Defeat Mal-Ravanal while Dacyn is nearby" but "nearby" should be explained
Seems to me this also applies to S17b Weldyn Besieged. In both cases, a hex radius of 3 is defined in: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/ab4759cb6b6c5254a9291bacfa8aef63c1164b79/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/utils/final_battle.cfg#L110
It's trivial to add a note to both ending scenarios' objectives that 'nearby' is within 3 hexes of Mal-Ravanal, however, I was trying to find a way to use variables so that 3 isn't hard-coded in three separate files. It looks like top-level scenario variables aren't allowed so I left this alone.
S3,S9: maybe review the last breath/die dialogs?
https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/ab4759cb6b6c5254a9291bacfa8aef63c1164b79/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/03_An_Unexpected_Appearance.cfg#L231-L234
This was the only one I found a bit awkward. Can probably just drop the re-entering Wesnoth part.
I think once #7815 is merged, we can probably close this
#7815 has been merged so...close?
