Add Practice Page for Supporting Color Contrast Settings

[mcking65]

Part of the resolution of issue #2864.

Preview Links

• Preview revised practices page in compare branch
• Preview color contrast settings practice page in compare branch

---

WAI Preview Link (Last built on Mon, 29 Sep 2025 18:59:24 GMT).

[jongund]

@mcking65 This is ready for review, I think it would be great if James Nurthen could review it.

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed New high contrast practice page.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<Jem> Topic:New high contrast practice page
<Jem> github:PR 2991 - Add Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast
<dmontalvo> s/:New/: New/
<Jem> github:https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Big thanks to jongund, this is great
<dmontalvo> ... In the PR there is a link to the preview
<Jem> https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/
<dmontalvo> ... At this point in the drafting process we have very good and useful info. Now I am thinking that we probably want to focus a bit on information architecture
<dmontalvo> ... Think about our audience will learn from this page, we have different audiences
<dmontalvo> ... We have not covered testing techniques here yet
<dmontalvo> ... We had said if there is already a resource in the WAI website we could use
<dmontalvo> Daniel: Maybe Easy Checks, not clear on specific
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Can we open an issue to that and then link from our pages?
<dmontalvo> Daniel: We could, that's under EO
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: We can start drafting it here, then open an issue to Easy Checks, and based on traction we could eventually remove it from here
<dmontalvo> jongund: I could do that
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: It seems to me there is something really valuable that you learned from James. I don't think EO would have included this information, they have more general contrast testing tools
<dmontalvo> ... I documented how to test this color contrast issues
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Probably it's on our own wiki under accessibility testing
<Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Pull-Request-Review-Process
<dmontalvo> Daniel: Probably that's out of scope for Easy Checks, we'd have to include this ourselves
<dmontalvo> CurtBellew: Are we saying this is too complicated?
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: No, just out of sccope for the Easy Checks project
<dmontalvo> jongund: It's not that complicated to put Windows or Linux in high contrast mode
<siri> q+
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Under operating system, high contrast features, do you know if we could provide links to the Microsoft, Apple, and Google documentation about those features?
<dmontalvo> Jem: Wouldn't it be changing?
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: I'd hope they have stable information about accessibility features
<Jem> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/change-color-contrast-in-windows-fedc744c-90ac-69df-aed5-c8a90125e696#:~:text=Select%20the%20Start%20button%2C%20and,colors%20on%20the%20screen%20change.
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Our current info is not very useful. Without any documentation to help people turn it on and off, I don't think it's actionable information
<dmontalvo> ... One solution to that is for us to provide a link to their documentation about the feature
<dmontalvo> jongund: Probably these days the accessibility links are more stable than they were
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Also if a link breaks, our link checker will ick it up
<dmontalvo> Jem: Good idea
<dmontalvo> jongund: I don't have a recent Android device
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Anybody in this group can find the appropriate info
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Also, where we are talking about the use of specific CSS properties, it would be great to link to the spec
<dmontalvo> s/to the spec/directly to the spec or to MDN/
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: I am going to spend a bit on time on this PR, to focus on what using these things does, for people to understtand the "Why"
<dmontalvo> jongund: Do you think the screenshots are useful?
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Love the idea of making things more visual, I can't comment on those though
<Jem> System Colors
<Jem> "The following table identifies the current system colors defined in CSS Color Module Level 4. System colors are supported in all major browsers, but the actual colors they render may vary between browsers and operating systems based on default and user theme and contrast settings."
<dmontalvo> jongund: What about the table on the system colors section that explain how browsers deal with ach of the colors
<dmontalvo> ... In Windows, it changes the colors used by the OS, i mac it just filters them out and transforms the bitmap
<dmontalvo> ... If you are taking a screenshot on the mac you are getting that without high contrast
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: That is actionable information
<dmontalvo> ... For sccreen reader users the sample column is blank. I understand it's just a color in there
<dmontalvo> ... Should be try to put something in there?
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: Should we put an ARIA label on the td?
<dmontalvo> jongund: Sample accent color
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: I think it'd be cool to have the name of the color
<dmontalvo> jongund: The actual color varies depending on the setting
<dmontalvo> Jem: But you have the hex code
<dmontalvo> Matt_King: We don't want hex code in the label, just the name that corresponds to it
<dmontalvo> Jem: I think it's possible
<dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/04-aria-apg-minutes.html dmontalvo
<dmontalvo> Meeting: ARIA APG Teleconference
<dmontalvo> Chair: Mat
<dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/04-aria-apg-minutes.html dmontalvo
<dmontalvo> zakim, bye
<Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees have been CurtBellew, curt_bellew, Arie
<dmontalvo> rrsagent, bye
<RRSAgent> I'm staying, dmontalvo; no access has been specified for the meeting record
<Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem
<Jem> regret+ Mike
<Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem
<Jem> MEETING: ARIA APG

[jongund]

@mcking65 I added labels to the cells in the sample column of the System Colors table.

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed New high contrast practice page.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Topic: New high contrast practice page
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<jugglinmike> jongund: In the table, under the "sample color" column, I added colors which are computed based on HTML standard color names
<jugglinmike> jongund: If it doesn't match a known color, it will tell you which color it is closest to
<siri> can you add link to system colors here?
<jugglinmike> jongund: This is all computed because the colors are different for each browser
<siri> https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think the "sample" column--it might be cool to label that "computed sample" or something like that, just to indicate that this is computed specifically for the current browser
<jugglinmike> jongund: It also detects grayscale. If all of the RGB values are the same, it will report "light gray", "gray", or "dark gray"
<jugglinmike> jongund: I also tried to work on testing for high-contrast support
<jugglinmike> jongund: Mostly what I have there is links to instructions for testing high-contrast settings
<jugglinmike> jongund: For the Chrome browser, I have a link for how to configure the DOM inspector (where you can add a "render" tab to one of the toolbars and use that to force certain colors)
<jugglinmike> jongund: I'm still working on this section, so it's not very well-organized, yet
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: It will be helpful to understand which ways of coding must be used in order to support high-contrast
<jugglinmike> jongund: I was thinking about using a button that's made from an image, a button that's made with a "<div>" whose "role" is "button", and then a button made from an SVG...
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Anyone care to weigh in on what would be useful for them?
<jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I'd have to think about this a bit; I don't know off-hand
<jugglinmike> arigilmroe: I need to take a closer look
<jugglinmike> s/arigilmroe/arigilmore/g
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: We avoid anti-patterns, but in a case like this, maybe we could have a "do's and don't's" kind of section
<jugglinmike> jongund: When you're using current color, you can't necessarily set the background color. It's not like the "force colors" media query where you can set whatever you want
<jugglinmike> jongund: If you're not careful, and the background color changes to the current color, you could end up with black-on-black. Clearly, you won't see anything in that case
<jugglinmike> jongund: There are also considerations around images
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Well those are two cautions right there. We could use different wording, like "recommendations" and "cautions" instead of "do's and don't's"
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm super-excited about getting all this information together in once place. It feels like it could be extremely valuable
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: It would be great if the other folks in attendance could give jongund feedback about what's good and/or what's missing
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: If anyone knows someone who might have advice, you can share a link to the preview https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/
<jugglinmike> And they can add comments to jongund's pull request
<jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I think high-contrast testing is under-served with accessibility testing. I agree that there's potentially a lot of value here
<jugglinmike> jongund: I'll try to work on this more today and tomorrow. I may not be present on the call next Tuesday; I'll be camping
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you for all the really awesome hard work on this, jongund
<jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting

[jongund]

@mcking65

I have been doing more investigation on supporting user high contrast settings. There needs to be a little bit of a deep dive on this issue in the working group. I added some feature tables to the current draft for high contrast support to help identify some of the issues we need to address in the practice and examples.
The main issues are:

1. The author can on detect media queries values, so which media queries should our example support. It is clear from the table prefers-contrast: more and forced-colors:active should be supported, but not sure about prefers-color-theme. Note we don't have any examples that support prefers-contrast: more and only two that support forced-colors: active.

2. How mush we should discuss the "invert colors" option in operating systems, this is the first setting in most operating system accessibility options. Preference more contrast is kind of buried in amongst other options. Theme options are in appearance, not accessibility options. Authors cannot detect it's use, so do we just ignore it in the practice?

3. current-color is our most popular technique for supporting high contrast, when is it not sufficient.

4. What do we mean by "high contrast support", what experience are we trying to give users.

I will be out of town on June 25th, but I should be there for the July 9th meeting.

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed Guidance for other high contrast media queries.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Topic: Guidance for other high contrast media queries
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<jugglinmike> jongund: There are three main ways for users to adjust the colors of rendered content, with two of the ways detectable by the author. Our patterns only demonstrate the use of the "forced-colors” media query which right now is only implemented on the browsers for the Windows 10/11 operating systems. We don't have any examples using the “prefers-contrast" or “prefers-color-theme” CSS media selectors. Let's discuss guidance fo
<jugglinmike> r “prefers-contrast” and “prefers-color-theme”.
<jugglinmike> jongund: It was kind of eye-opening for me to look at all these different things in depth
<jugglinmike> jongund: The operating system features that are available and how they impact what authors can actually detect
<jugglinmike> jongund: The big thing that all OSes have is "invert colors"; this takes all the RGB values and subtracts them from 255
<jugglinmike> jongund: On Apple, it's just a visual effect--it doesn't impact the computed color in the browser, for example
<jugglinmike> jongund: I don't know how it works in Windows
<jugglinmike> jongund: The next one is contrast. There's dark-screen mode and light-screen mode
<jugglinmike> jongund: There's a media query for this: prefers-color-scheme with values "dark" or "light"
<jugglinmike> jongund: It seems to be geared toward people who are working at night or low-visibility settings
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: If a user prefers dark, then a web page doesn't have to do anything special
<jugglinmike> jongund: Right. The chrome of the browser changes, but the pages themselves don't change unless the author has defined a media query for it
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't know for sure, on Facebook for instance, whether the dark mode has to be turned on in Facebook or if it has a media query
<jugglinmike> jongund: Under "accessibility", there's something called "increased contrast"
<jugglinmike> jongund: This one's a little more buried
<jugglinmike> jongund: It's a toggle which, when enabled, sets a media query for "prefers-contrast" with the value "more"
<jugglinmike> jongund: Again, that changes how the browser chrome appears, but it doesn't impact the rendered content (unless the author has defined a media query)
<jugglinmike> jongund: Windows has a unique feature called "contrast themes"--at least 3 or 4 themes that users can select
<jugglinmike> jongund: Those actually change the web content
<jugglinmike> jongund: First: should we be looking at these other media queries and supporting them?
<jugglinmike> jongund: Second: what is our definition of support when they are not available across platform?
<jugglinmike> jongund: We have a lot of information about how to use "force-colors" and it's still useful, but I don't know if we have to be clear about whether its universally useful
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: So in the examples that we have that are currently supporting high-contrast...
<jugglinmike> jongund: It really only makes a difference if you're using Windows. There's no setting on a Mac that would change the CSS media query "force-colors"
<jugglinmike> jongund: I don't think it's considered an accessibility feature; it's usually in "display options" or "appearance", not in the accessibility section
<jugglinmike> jongund: If we're going to call it out, we might acknowledge that this feature is not necessarily organized alongside accessibility features
<jugglinmike> s/ariellalgilmore/ariellagilmore/g
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: At the APG, we want to help web authors support people with disabilities. APG is mostly focused on keyboard and assistive technology, but I think this is an important topic that's not addressed elsewhere
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: We want to give people guidance on the best way to support people using color
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: But based on what you're saying jongund, it doesn't appear as if there is a single approach that always works on all platforms
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: "prefers contrast" is a toggle, right?
<jugglinmike> jongund: Yes; but that makes me wonder about WCAG conformance
<jugglinmike> jongund: It's present in all the platforms
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: What does it mean to support it? If you do the query and you find out that the value is set to "more", what does the author need to do?
<jugglinmike> jongund: The only thing I could think of on the first level is that any page now needs to meet WCAG "AAA" requirements
<jugglinmike> jongund: It only signals to authors that, "hey, this person prefers high contrast"
<jugglinmike> jongund: Maybe it should be taken as "hey, you should do something about that"
<jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I have not come across this media query. We have thousands of products, but I haven't come across it, personally
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: arigilmore, do you know if Carbon does anything with this media query, "prefers contrast"?
<jugglinmike> arigilmore: No, I don't believe so
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: It's interesting that the setting exists, that there's a media query for it, but I wonder if anyone's actually doing anything with it
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: It seems like it would be important to include this, but it also seems like we want to suggest what to do with it. But then, it almost seems like the entire website needs to model appropriate behavior
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: And then I wonder, what's appropriate in this case?
<jugglinmike> jongund: My guess is that people are just relying on "invert color" because that just means that a light color scheme now becomes a dark color scheme
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't think that you would want to invert colors if "prefers contrast" is set to "more". That could be pretty shocking
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: The operating systems don't behave that way, after all
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: You've raised a good set of questions, jongund, but it doesn't seem that anybody here has any concrete knowledge about what to do
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: It makes me wonder about how the folks in the CSS working group managed to get this added
<jugglinmike> jongund: These are features in operating systems that they put into CSS
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Maybe we could ask people like James Craig and Scott O'Hara. "So you have these features in the operating system..." Well, I wonder if sites like apple.com or microsoft.com are responsive to those systems. We could ask people at Apple and Microsoft about what their operating system does in response to those settings
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: jongund, could you raise a specific issue just for the "prefers contrast" media query so that we can get a discussion going with folks from Apple and Microsoft and learn how web authors should use them?
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: As for "prefers color theme", that seems really straight forward
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I guess you need to build infrastructure to support dark mode...
<jugglinmike> jongund: The apple website does not respond to dark mode or increased contrast, but the macOS operating system does
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: So maybe the answer is to be silent on these things...
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Lets raise an issue for each specific media query and tie it back to this first issue for developing guidance for high-contrast
<jugglinmike> jongund: Got it. Will do
<jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting

[a11ydoer]

I will review this tomorrow. sorry for the delay.

[a11ydoer]

Minor technical detail - In System Colors table, the computed sample column, "highlight," is not the same as the computed color, "#4d7198". It seems to be #b3d7ff.

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed High contrast PR.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<Jem> Topic: High contrast PR
<Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<Jem> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<Jem> jongund: I have questions about strategies
<Jem> high contrast setting for users - neither of those does not have the info. only info is about forced color one.
<Jem> ...window is the only one which support css forced color one uing media query
<Jem> s/window/window OS/
<Jem> .. it is called as window themes for changing settings for system colors
<Jem> those system colors are not consistent through browsers.
<Jem> the most incidious setting is "transparent" setting in google browser and it does put white to white font.
<Jem> The examples are mentioned in the table, computed color is "transparent" in https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/
<Jem> mck: color contrast will be different by OS system and themes the users choose.
<Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3063
<Jem> jongund: color contrast seems like moving target.
<Jem> mck: let's talk about the framework how to lead the discuss the color contrast topic.
<Jem> ...there are three common OS settings and only window OS is the one we can tell how to use. Two OS color setting is complex and complicated.
<Jem> .. here in APG , we can discuss how to enhance the color contrast better by showing different color contrast info such as computed colors and more.
<Jem> mck: we can think about pro and con of invert color vs forced colors.
<Jem> ... not making any changes to the existing doc and making the documentation for pros and cons. then include the guideline for high color contrast.
<Jem> from users' point
<Jem> once we know user's perspective, then we can frame that and connect the data Jon collected.
<Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/03-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem
<Jem> chair: Matt King
<Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/03-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem

[jongund]

@a11ydoer Fixed bug in color calculation for system colors

[a11ydoer]

@a11ydoer Fixed bug in color calculation for system colors

Hi @jongund RGBA for the "highlight color" is converted to hex value, #80bcfe99 when I used this website. I also attached the screenshot.

The same result when I use this rapid table site.

[jongund]

@a11ydoer

Jemma you need to add the alpha value (e.g. the 4 value in the RGB value) to compute the actual rendered color, the screen shot you sent only allows the R, G and B values to be used in the calculation. The actual computed color depends on the color of the background, which in the case of the practices page is white (#ffffff).

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed High Contrast guidance update.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Topic: High Contrast guidance update
<dmontalvo> ack howard-e
<jugglinmike> jon: I'm still working on updates
<jugglinmike> Jon: I hope to have something ready for next week
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Topic: PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I expected to be further along on editorial work for this
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: There is still some editing that I think needs to be done, but I want to get reviewers assigned so that people can start looking and providing comments
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: There's also the tests to consider. We have six tests which are failing, and we need to resolve that within the next few days (if we want to publish next week)
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Slipping on this would also change the review schedule
<jugglinmike> jongund: It's really more like three tests (since it's running for both push and pull request). There are linting failures for CSS and HTML. Also the link checker is failing. Why is that...?
<jugglinmike> s/jongund:/Matt_King:/
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: howard-e do these failures prevent the preview from including the latest changes?
<jugglinmike> howard-e: No, the shouldn't
<jugglinmike> howard-e: I'm also going through and leaving a review on some changes
<jugglinmike> howard-e: I just took a look at the failure from the link checker. That might be spurious, so I'll try re-running. I wonder if the way the link is written is confusing the link checker
<jugglinmike> howard-e: The others seems to be related to formatting
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Formatting issues should be easy to fix
<jugglinmike> jongund: Got it. I'll fix them
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I would like to get at least two (but ideally three) people to read this text in detail and identify anything that ought to be changed prior to publication
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Because this is a practice page and not an example, your review is essentially editorial in nature. We want to be sure that the text is clear and that it serves the goals of the APG effectively. The main thing is we want this to be useful to our audience
<jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I'd love to review this. After briefly skimming it, it looks fantastic
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Great! I'm adding you as a reviewer
<siri> can you give link to bug?
<jugglinmike> Adam_Page: I can take a look

[jongund]

Can someone run the prettier code on the CSS to get rid of the CSS linting errors

[howard-e]

Can someone run the prettier code on the CSS to get rid of the CSS linting errors

Done in https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991/commits/5720724d650679565184a2f0883c74557aa9456a

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Topic: PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you for all the commits last Tuesday, jongund!
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: All the checks are passing
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: We requested review from three people. None of those reviews are in, yet
<jugglinmike> Adam_Page: I reviewed and requested changes just a few minutes ago
<jugglinmike> Jem: I plan to review after this meeting
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think this depends on the nature of the feedback. I personally haven't spent the time on this that I planned on spending
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'd like to commit to a specific time for making a merge decision on this pull request (to determine whether it will be included in tomorrow's release)
<jugglinmike> Jem: (I wish that our Task Force had a way to announce a new release. This patch is a good candidate to highlight publicly.)
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'd love to talk about that. We can add a topic to today's agenda
<jugglinmike> s/I wish/By the way, I wish/
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: If we make the decision at 1PM PT, then will that give you enough time to release, howard-e?
<jugglinmike> howard-e: Yes, I'm in eastern standard time. It will be 4PM for me, and that works
<dmontalvo> present- dmontalvo
<jugglinmike> Jem: I reviewed this a long time ago. Is there any specific aspect that I need to focus on as a reviewer?
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is the final review. Clarity, style, relevance of information. We want to make sure that the guidance we're giving is useful and actionable by our readers. It's got to be consistent with what we want in the APG but also something that authors can actually use in practice
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: More and more, I want to make sure we aren't stepping outside of our bounds. We shouldn't be trying to take the place of other important W3C resources. We should simply refer to those and remain focused on the APG's mission
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: If we can get this merged by 1:00 tomorrow, we would like to include it in the next release. There are a lot of unknowns, though, and that includes me (i.e. whether I can fit it in among my other deadlines)
<jugglinmike> howard-e: For what it's worth, I can wait as late as 2:30 PM PST
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you, howard-e! Given my meeting schedule, that extra time might be really helpful
<jugglinmike> Adam_Page: I have some additional thoughts about dark mode
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think we're looking for minimum-viable product here. We can always enhance later
<jugglinmike> Adam_Page: Yeah, that makes sense

[jongund]

@mcking65 @howard-e The preview is still out of date with what's in the prepository

[howard-e]

@mcking65 @howard-e The preview is still out of date with what's in the prepository

@jongund the referenced link in the top comment had to be completely rebuilt so it's a new link now. I can only assume the older link was checked. My apologies for not clarifying that in the previous meeting.

The changes of your most recent commit under the Color Scheme (Light or Dark) h2 are present to me when viewing that updated link. Please let me know if this matches what's expected.

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Topic: PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I have been reviewing from the perspective of someone who doesn't know anything about this topic
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: It feels unclear to me. In some cases, if the author does nothing to support these settings, the content is still rendered fine.
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: In the case of increased contrast and high contrast modes, isn't it the case that if someone changes those settings, and the author does nothing, that content can disappear?
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: I think the current practice lacks an answer to "what should I do?" We can say, "you should at least do this if you want to comply with WCAG". The only thing we've done is try to comply with contrast themes (as implemented in Windows)
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: Increased contrast seems to me like, kind of a "why do it?" issue. Unless you are trying to meet "contrast enhanced"...
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: If the end user goes to their operating system and chooses to increase contrast--if they visit a webpage where the author has done nothing to support that, then the web page will render without problems
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: Correct. If you don't support media queries, then the page renders as if the media queries were absent
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: I believe in our examples, if we didn't support high-contrast themes, you would just get the colors that the author originally specified
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: but it's complicated; it depends on how much your page is inheriting from the operating system and the browser's default settings
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Is it the case, if you're using the author-specified colors, and somebody has chosen a Windows contrast theme--are there scenarios where, because of author-specified colors, that theme would cause content to not render in a perceivable way
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: that's definitely a possibility
<jugglinmike> Jem: Are you talking about operating system configuration changes?
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: If the user changes the OS scheme, and the author has specified colors without referencing the force-colors media query, the page may render in a way where the content is not perceivable
<jugglinmike> Jem: Are you talking about the case where the operating system overrides the color settings?
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: the browser changes its default stylesheet to a configuration that complies with the Windows theme
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: I wouldn't talk about overriding, exactly, because it is changing the default of the browser
<jugglinmike> Jem: When I studied the trusted [??], there was a role that could override the system settings
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: A lot of developers insert a "reset" stylesheet. They're saying, "I don't want the browser to tell me anything; I want to start with this base" So I don't think you can say the default stylesheet of the browser is an accessibility setting
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: In some of the ARIA meetings I attended a few years ago, we met with the CSS working group, and they stated that over half of the pages on the web (at that time) use reset stylesheet
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: None of this is specified, though, so I think the best recommendation we can make is that "you need to test"
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: What Microsoft, Google, Apple--whatever--decides to do with that information is I suppose their best guess at what their users want
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: Could there be problems with rendering if people enable them on the page? Yes
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Should there be guidance on this page that says, "here are some really common problems which cause content to become imperceivable"
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: for "current color", that is an issue because you only get the color of the rendered text. If that color changes from black to white, and you have a white background, that content will disappear
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: "current color" to me is kind of a risky way to inherit these system colors
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Should the recommendation to be not to do it that way?
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: Well then what should we do with all of our examples?
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm thinking in terms of, "there's a lot of stuff you could do; what happens if you don't do it?" If the answer is "nothing, really", then that's fine
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: I think we should say to avoid using "current color" for that particular reason. I would be willing to say that
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think making it really concrete... In so many places, you've done an answer job creating functional examples. I wonder if you'd like to just show the problem with "current color" in a concrete way
<jugglinmike> jongunderson: That could work
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I have another question on the level-2 heading for the contrast themes. In the table above, we say "contrast themes aka high contrast mode". I wonder if we should do that in the heading as well
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's a common term, so I'm wondering if we should use the same wording in the heading
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's the heading for the section on "Contrast themes"
<Jem> https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/
<jugglinmike> Jem: If it makes the content clearer, then why not?
<Jem> https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/
<jugglinmike> s/jongunderson/jongund/g
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is the second-to-last section on the page
<jugglinmike> jongund: As I recall, the Microsoft system settings talk about "high contrast themes"
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I would like to be more friendly to a wider audience. The programmers can read the details
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm also thinking that in the one where we say "color screen light or dark", we could instead say "light or dark modes"
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I hear everyday people use those terms
<jugglinmike> jongund: Yeah, I think that's a good idea
<jugglinmike> Jem: We use the word "themes", not the word "mode". It doesn't matter much to me, though
<jugglinmike> siri: Whenever I hear "high contrast mode", that is the setting I see in Windows
<jugglinmike> siri: Slowly, we are moving away from that. We're moving towards "forced colors", etc.
<jugglinmike> siri: If we put "high contrast", some readers may get confused
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: When I was looking at this in Windows, I thought it used the term "high contrast". Is that still the case today?
<jugglinmike> siri: This morning, my system was updated, and it no longer uses that term
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Windows is saying "contrast themes", and if I go to "contrast themes"... Hm.
<jugglinmike> siri: Only the older versions of Windows used the term "high contrast". Now, it is different
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Reviewing these, the names are "night sky", "dust", "desert", "aquatic", and "none". None of them even use the term "high contrast" in the name of the theme!
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Well then, maybe we should completely remove "high contrast mode"
<jugglinmike> siri: That's what I was thinking
<jugglinmike> jongund: I don't think we should talk so much about "high contrast", either. I don't think it's accurate about what these settings do. They can be used to achieve high-contrast, but in and of themselves, they don't necessarily do that
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Should we just change the section title to "Supporting color contrast settings"?
<siri> +1
<jugglinmike> jongund: That would be more appropriate
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Okay! Any objections from anybody to changing the name of the practice?
<jugglinmike> Jem: no objection
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Great! (This is going in a direction I didn't expect. I'm glad I asked!)
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Now, there are a couple places on this page where I think the way the page is displayed depends on the browser you are using. I don't think that's explicitly stated, though
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Isn't it the case that what you see depends on what browser you use?
<jugglinmike> jongund: The only one I'm aware of is system colors
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Okay, just system colors. So not "increased contrast examples? That one doesn't change?
<jugglinmike> jongund: We don't do anything to support increased contrast on our pages (other than tiny examples
<jugglinmike> s/examples/examples)/
<jugglinmike> jongund: Maybe on the "systems color" page. The only red flag is on Chrome, for accent color and accent color test, their default color is transparent. I could put a warning to say "use with caution because some browsers such as Chrome render this as transparent which may effect color contrast"
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Yes, please add that
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I still feel like there are some aspects of system colors where I feel like we're not quite bringing people up to speed on what's happen
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: But following today's discussion, I think I can make comments on specific lines in your page
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Okay, that was a lot for this section. Any other questions or comments?
<jugglinmike> jongund: Just to be clear: you want me to add an example of where "current color" could cause problems?
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Yeah, explain exactly how things can disappear, and show an example
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you jongund. I will be making the other editorial changes that we discussed

[jongund]

@mcking65 @howard-e The preview is being built now, just different preview number

[jongund]

@howard-e Any ideas on why the build is failing?

[jongund]

@mcking65 I am working on some changes, so please wait to review until I commit my changes problably on Monday.

[mcking65]

@jongund

Heads up that when I changed the title as agreed in the last meeting, I renamed the directory and main file. I am making some of the other editorial changes we agreed to make.

[mcking65]

@jongund could you please fix the linting errors. Apparently there is a bad link someplace too.

@howard-e the preview build is failing again. Wonder if it has to do with the directory renaming I did.

[howard-e]

@howard-e the preview build is failing again. Wonder if it has to do with the directory renaming I did.

This should be resolved now. And the updated content is available at https://deploy-preview-380--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/color-settings/

[mcking65]

Thank you @howard-e!

I updated the preview links section in the top comment.

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed Practice Page for Supporting color settings.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<howard-e> Topic: Practice Page for Supporting color settings
<howard-e> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
<howard-e> Matt_king: The most visible change is that we've changed the title to Supporting Color Contrast Settings
<howard-e> Matt_King: This affected the practices page
<howard-e> Matt_King: 2 links are here. One to the revised Practices Page but not much to look at here
<howard-e> Matt_King: It's fairly placed down the page but wonder what others think on this
<howard-e> Matt_King: Supporting Color Contrast Settings is the 6th card based on the page structure. The description I put is the first couple sentences from the page
<Matt_King> Snippet from practices page:
<Matt_King> Some people need more than the required default minimum color contrast to perceive content. make content responsive to operating system color and contrast
<Matt_King> settings so it meets people's needs for different colors or higher contrast.
<howard-e> Matt_King: This is essentially our marketing text for that page
<jongund> q+
<howard-e> Matt_King: At some point, I wanted to use the word "high" or "higher" contrast. We eliminated that from the title so included it in the description
<howard-e> Matt_King: The thinking I had here is for people's perception of different colors
<howard-e> Matt_King: The very first sentence doesn't address it fully because some people need more than the minimum default contrast. We have to be careful not to be too wordy
<howard-e> Adam_Page: I also had a reaction to the first sentence that's important to perceiving the content
<howard-e> Adam_Page: Another rationale is about the comfort or cognitive ease of interpreting the page
<howard-e> Adam_Page: Thinking for example of folks with migraines who prefer dark mode
<howard-e> Matt_King: We could make this first sentence a little longer. Maybe we don't need the words "to perceive the content"
<howard-e> Matt_King: Maybe we can just say "some people need" ...
<howard-e> Adam_Page: I agree. Would like to just get rid of the first sentence and say something like "It meets peoples' needs or preferences"
<howard-e> jongund: I think we could go with just the 2nd sentence
<howard-e> Matt_King: I think you're right jongund. We Can eliminate the first sentence
<howard-e> Matt_King: I will make that change. That will cause me to do a bit of editorial at the top of the page so I will revise the introduction a little based on this discussion
<howard-e> Matt_King: I would like to spend a bit of time deep diving into the instructions in the first section
<howard-e> Jem: [sharing screen to display User Options for Adjusting Color Contrast]
<howard-e> Matt_King: This made me realize we might not have the word "contrast" in this section
<Jem> https://deploy-preview-380--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/color-settings/
<howard-e> Matt_King: Should it just be "user options for adjusting colors"?
<howard-e> Matt_King: Or "Colors and Contrast"?
<howard-e> Adam_Page: I like that
<howard-e> Matt_King: Okay so in this table's description column, I made quite a few changes because I felt it important to tell authors what happens if "I don't do anything to support this"
<howard-e> Matt_King: Like in the "Invert Colors" row, if the user does this then everything happens automatically
<howard-e> Matt_King: They just get these alternate colors
<howard-e> Matt_King: In the Practices column, I shared that to ensure your site is rendered well and meet minimum color requirements of WCAG
<howard-e> Matt_King: This is so they know that this is what happens
<howard-e> Matt_King: The next 2 also note is not automatically changed by the operating system -- so the setting only works when authors provide support
<howard-e> Matt_King: I put that in "Increase Contrast" and "Color Scheme" rows
<howard-e> Matt_King: Are these statements accurate for those 2 rows?
<howard-e> jongund: I would say "rendering of apps"
<howard-e> jongund: I don't know if typically is needed. I don't know if there's any browsers that changes rendering based on that setting
<howard-e> Matt_King: Some browsers do
<howard-e> jongund: I suppose Chrome does
<howard-e> Matt_King: yes, when I'm saying app, I'm meaning the browser
<howard-e> Matt_King: Should we say "native app" there so it's clear?
<howard-e> howard-e: I didn't but I could see others interpreting it that way
<howard-e> Daniel: Can we use content ... [missed]
<howard-e> Matt_King: I'm thinking in some of these cases, the browser changing may cause some of these changes
<howard-e> Daniel: I wasn't clear that "app" was for that so maybe we should make it clear
<howard-e> jongund: Yep, maybe we should say the rendering app includes browser
<howard-e> jongund: So breaking it up so when users increase contrast, the browser rendering changes but not the browser content
<howard-e> Matt_King: Well the apps won't change unless the app actively supports "Increase Contrast", in iOS at least
<howard-e> jongund: Well I suppose if people build their own way
<howard-e> Matt_King: I don't know but maybe some frameworks support and some don't. The author would have to choose to build it in a way to support
<howard-e> Matt_King: So I don't want to say the apps are always going to do it
<howard-e> scribe+ Daniel
<Daniel> scribe+
<Daniel> Matt: I didn't want to say something incorrect
<Daniel> ... If you do nothing in dark mode or increased contrast you are not hurting users, but the browser itself may look different
<Daniel> jongund: Yes. Borwsers don't do anything automatically
<Daniel> Matt: So your browser Chrome will be in dark mode but the web that doesn't support it will render normally
<Daniel> jongund: Right.
<Daniel> Matt: Last row of the table --description of forced colors, first sentence
<Matt_King> description of color themes:
<Matt_King> Accessibility feature that automatically forces the operating system and apps to render content using an alternative color theme chosen by the user. Some
<Matt_King> of the themes are designed to provide extra high contrast, and users can customize their chosen color theme. Browser default styles respond to this setting
<Matt_King> using the system colors described below. The user-chosen theme does not automatically override author specified colors, so content can disappear in certain
<Matt_King> circumstances.
<Daniel> jongund: Newer Windows 11 versions have this under Accessibility > Contrast theme
<Daniel> Matt: I need to fix this, thank you, jongund
<Daniel> Matt: Firstpoint of the description is that Windows forces [...] Is that a correct statement?
<Daniel> jongund: Yes
<Daniel> Matt: Browsers respond to this setting [...] Is that correct?
<Daniel> jongund: Whatever style you put on your website, if it's text content, it will render with the color for text content, if it is a link it will use the link
<Daniel> Matt: It forces a color scheme to be used for certain kinds of contents but there's certain kinds that are excluded, right?
<Daniel> jongund: Everything will be forced into something else, depends on the markup
<Daniel> ... Links will render on a different color. Buttons and other form controls have another color. Images are not changed
<Daniel> ... Probably other media too, like videos
<Daniel> Matt: Browsers force the user colors on all content using the semantic markup to choose a color based on the system colors
<Daniel> jongund: That's too far. They have their own colors. Generally they are related to system colors, but it's not clear if it's system color or some other color.
<Daniel> ... For example a range control tested in different contrast themes doesn't match up with any system colors foro the browser
<Daniel> Matt: So if you have a div role=slider it's not going to render as a slider. Does it mean that everything using ARIA is going to be rendered as a text?
<Daniel> jongund: Yes if the container is text-based
<Daniel> Matt: ARIA markup has no effect on the choice of color the browser uses
<Daniel> ... the user chooses a color theme and then the user can change that, right?
<Daniel> jongund: Users can create their own themes, not sure if they can change existing ones
<Daniel> ... Seems you can choose more things from the store but you cannot put the colors yourselves
<Daniel> Matt: Do they tell you which colors are used when you choose the theme?
<Daniel> jongund: Yes, you can edit the colors, you can set background and foreground, you can pick from eight colors
<Daniel> Matt: Browsers choose to apply a theme t based in the type of contento elements in content
<Daniel> ... To some extent they use system colors in a manner that is generally consistent with the chosen system colors
<Daniel> jongund: You are not going to get consistent colors betwen browsers
<Daniel> Matt: But there are somewhat relateed with the system colors table
<Daniel> jongund: It's not exactly so based on my testing
<Daniel> Matt: I'll try to make these changes.
<Daniel> jongund: I might be traveling next Tuesday byt I'll try to make the meeting
<Daniel> Matt: If others can take a look and scrutinize the accuracy of the statements
<Daniel> jongund: The browsers in general use the system colors, but they tend to pick up different colors based on different type of content
<Daniel> Matt: How complete is this?
<Daniel> jongund: I think there is more work to do. I am trying to consistently use the switch control for each of the sections to highlight what happens
<Daniel> ... Probably we will need to update the switch examples to be consistent with what is in here
<Daniel> ... We are also using SVG to render the control part of it. The div and button arejust containers. In actual switches we don't always do that
<Daniel> Matt: I think we can save this for later
<Daniel> jongund: Current color is somewhat limiting. I would probably rely more on system colors to mimic what browsers do with standard content
<Daniel> Matt: Let's get at least a first versionos what we are doing it 25 Feb
<Daniel> jongund: Under the system colors I just put some caution notes as well
<Daniel> Matt: On the names pages we have a style
<Daniel> jongund: Let me know what is best or change it please
<Daniel> zakim, take up next
<Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda

[mcking65]

@jongund

I revised intro and user options table based on today's discussion. Please review for accuracy.

[mcking65]

@jongund There are quite a few lint errors. Can you clean them up?

@howard-e The preview is not showing latest commits again. Is that because of the failing checks?