trunkmaster
Command vs. Alt vs. Win - trouble running non-GS applications
I am using an old thinkpad carbon for running NEXTSpace which I am currently still evaluating. It looks I my Alt key is mapped to Command. So far so good. However it does not look like I can map Alt to any other phyiscal key. I use tabbed terminal emulators (like tilda) which are all configured to use the "same" shortcuts I use on my Mac (hence: Alt-t for new tab, Alt-{} for navigating between tabs etc.). I can't get any of this to work. They don't know what "Command" is, hence I cannot map anything to "Command". I have played around a bit with the modifier key preference, but that was to no avail either.
I guess that a way to freely map Alt and Command to any physical keys, so that one could use Alt and Command alongside each other.
@mbert you're right at current state of window manager implementation Alt (or Command) is mapped to app menu actions. App menu for non-GNUstep applications created by Workspace. I'm close to the point where it would be better to drop this idea and move such menu to titlebar right-click menu. I'll look at this later.
Sorry for bringing this up again, is there any news on this one?
I have just played around with NEXTSpace a bit, and I am still having trouble with non-GNUstep applications. I find the generated menus charming by the way.
Looking at other Unix variants, the separation of Alt an Meta comes to my mind. We have Command and Option on Mac and Alt with the dreaded Windows key on PCs. Is there any reason Alt and Command could not coexist?
Or is there already a workaround one could use?
Thank you very much, looks much better now. And a very elegant solution it seems: Alt key is supported for non-GS apps while still usable as Command for the menu, chapeau!
One thing that does not work yet is setting a keyboard shortcut including the Alt key for tilda (quake-style terminal window slider). Any chance this could work in the future?
Also, more a feature request, it would be nice if one could also configure Alt-1, Alt-2, ... for switching to desktops. I somehow got used to this long ago with an early WindowMaker version ;)
But anyway, with this improvement NS is getting close to use as a daily driver. I will have to play around with dual head screen setup a bit. Also I have had a few crashes, I will file issues if I encounter anything reproducable.
Thank you very much, looks much better now. And a very elegant solution it seems: Alt key is supported for non-GS apps while still usable as Command for the menu, chapeau!
One thing that does not work yet is setting a keyboard shortcut including the Alt key for tilda (quake-style terminal window slider). Any chance this could work in the future?
I'm working on this. I've already found a problem, got a solution and working on implementation.
Also, more a feature request, it would be nice if one could also configure Alt-1, Alt-2, ... for switching to desktops. I somehow got used to this long ago with an early WindowMaker version ;)
I understand your wish to have such shortcuts but keep in mind that any of Alt(Command) shortcuts could be overridden by GNUstep applications. The rule of thumb: Command+ shortcuts are reserved for system (window manager, applications) usage. For example, Command+Alt-1, Alt-2,... shortcuts will limit applications' usage experience.
But anyway, with this improvement NS is getting close to use as a daily driver. I will have to play around with dual head screen setup a bit. Also I have had a few crashes, I will file issues if I encounter anything reproducable.
Waiting for your reports in separate issues.
Unfortunately it does not work yet. Note that I usually set my shortcut in tilda to Alt-Ctrl-y.
Works for me. I've set Ctrl-Alt-y to "Close Tab" it's displayed as <Primary><Alt>y. I don't know why <Control> displayed as <Primary> but shortcut really works.
I believe you ;) But it really does not work here. In tilda configuration my input involving Alt is simply ignored. I also tried guake. It tells me that Primary-Alt-y is already in use. But I don't see where. Nextspace does not seem to use it. In yakuake I can select the shortcut, but it does not have any effect. For installation I removed the old packages and installed the fresh build.
Please be more specific. I can't read your mind yet I'm still learning. :) Have you rebuilt and reinstall Workspace?
I believe you ;) But it really does not work here. In tilda configuration my input involving Alt is simply ignored.
When you input is ignored? During shortcut setup or while trying to use? Did you restart tilda after shortcut setup?
I also tried guake. It tells me that Primary-Alt-y is already in use. But I don't see where. Nextspace does not seem to use it. In yakuake I can select the shortcut, but it does not have any effect. For installation I removed the old packages and installed the fresh build.
Let's stay focused on tilda I can't test every existing applications in the world.
OK, back to tilda. I installed the new Nextspace packages and did a reboot. Now I log in through loginwindow. I start tilda from a terminal window. The tilda terminal slides down at startup. I right-click and select the preferences. Then, in the keybindings configuration I doublecklick the shortcut for pulling down the terminal I press Ctrl-Alt-y, but this input is ignored, i.e. the dialogue "Enter keyboard shortcut" does not appear. I press something else, like F1, and the dialogue closes, F1 is displayed as shortcut. It looks like in the dialogue the key combination Ctrl-Alt-y does not "arrive". For context, don't know whether this is relevant in this context (I don't really think so), I use capslock to switch between keyboard layouts - US, DE, UA. Apart from that the Nextspace setup is pretty vanilla, I had installed Fedora 42 on my laptop just a few days ago.
OK, back to tilda. I installed the new Nextspace packages and did a reboot.
What do you mean by new Nextspace packages?
Have you made git pull and make install in Applications/Workspace?
You don't need to reboot after Workspace reinstall.
Now I log in through loginwindow. I start tilda from a terminal window. The tilda terminal slides down at startup. I right-click and select the preferences. Then, in the keybindings configuration I doublecklick the shortcut for pulling down the terminal I press Ctrl-Alt-y, but this input is ignored, i.e. the dialogue "Enter keyboard shortcut" does not appear. I press something else, like F1, and the dialogue closes, F1 is displayed as shortcut. It looks like in the dialogue the key combination Ctrl-Alt-y does not "arrive". For context, don't know whether this is relevant in this context (I don't really think so), I use capslock to switch between keyboard layouts - US, DE, UA.
Interesting... Do you speak Ukrainian?
Apart from that the Nextspace setup is pretty vanilla, I had installed Fedora 42 on my laptop just a few days ago.
What do you mean by
new Nextspace packages?
I always git-pull, build fresh RPMs and install them. As there's no version bump I uninstall the old and then install the new packages. I rebooted because loginwindow did not come up after installation, and I wanted to see whether it would after reboot.
Interesting... Do you speak Ukrainian?
Yes. I learned it about 15 years ago, and I live in a bilingual household with about 50% Ukrainian.
What do you mean by
new Nextspace packages?I always git-pull, build fresh RPMs and install them. As there's no version bump I uninstall the old and then install the new packages. I rebooted because loginwindow did not come up after installation, and I wanted to see whether it would after reboot.
There's a shorter way to reinstall specific app after such small commits. Just git pull, make and sudo make install even if you have already installed packages.
Anyway I wonder why you can't setup shortcuts in tilda. Just to be clear: did you right-click on tilda window, select "Preferences" in menu, select "Keybindings" section, double-click on some shortcut, "Enter keyboard shortcut" window appears. You press Control-Alt-y and nothing happens?
Interesting... Do you speak Ukrainian?
Yes. I learned it about 15 years ago, and I live in a bilingual household with about 50% Ukrainian.
As you may have noticed in my profile I live in Kyiv and Ukrainian is my native language. ;)
Anyway I wonder why you can't setup shortcuts in
tilda. Just to be clear: did you right-click ontildawindow, select "Preferences" in menu, select "Keybindings" section, double-click on some shortcut, "Enter keyboard shortcut" window appears. You press Control-Alt-y and nothing happens?
Exactly.
As you may have noticed in my profile I live in Kyiv and Ukrainian is my native language. ;)
Yes, I have seen this. I have been to Kyiv many times and have a good number of friends over there. But my base is in Western Ukraine.
Anyway I wonder why you can't setup shortcuts in
tilda. Just to be clear: did you right-click ontildawindow, select "Preferences" in menu, select "Keybindings" section, double-click on some shortcut, "Enter keyboard shortcut" window appears. You press Control-Alt-y and nothing happens?Exactly.
You have problem with applying latest commits to install. I recommend use source installation to use fast route: git pull; cd Application/Workspace; make; sudo make install.
As you may have noticed in my profile I live in Kyiv and Ukrainian is my native language. ;)
Yes, I have seen this. I have been to Kyiv many times and have a good number of friends over there. But my base is in Western Ukraine.
Nice. 😀
I generally prefer to manage all software on my machine by a packet manager. Spent far too many years with stuff in /usr/local or /opt putting itself into different places like ld.so.conf etc. Just too messy.
I had an idea what the problem could be, and it looks like I was right: the RPM build does not seem to clean everything when running again after a git pull. I deleted the 'nextspace' folder, cloned it again and then ran the RPM build. Now, with the new RPMs your fix is now available and works. The RPM build issue may be worth a ticket. But I haven't yet found the time to analyse this in detail.