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[1841] Rules ambiguity: Should any shareholder should be allowed to buy up to a Presidency during a merge?

Open physic opened this issue 2 years ago • 6 comments

https://18xx.games/game/132855?action=1164

One page of analysis of ambiguous rules incoming:

From 4.7.4.1

  • Each old Corporation Shareholder ... exchanges pairs of shares, [in the described turn order]. The first shareholder with 40% must take the Presidency.
  • [Then] Each player with a remaining share may [trade up or down]
  • If the new Presidency has not been claimed when a player who has less than 40% is to exchange shares, the player may pay the difference to upgrade their entire holding to the Presidency ... Note that any merger except the Tuscan Merge [is backed out] if no shareholder will take the Presidency.

Bullet point 1 refers to shareholders. All good. Bullet point 2 refers to players, but then at the end of the paragraph specifies what decision a Frozen company makes, suggesting that bullet point 2 actually intends to refer to shareholders, and not only players. Currently the engine treats this paragraph as referring to all shareholders, giving corporations the choice to pay up for the share, or receive cash and give up the share.

Bullet point 3 refers to players, but the clause, "[backed out] if no shareholder will take the Presidency," seems to mean "if no shareholder is willing to take the Presidency" rather than "if no shareholder takes the Presidency," especially given the context that this clause was placed within the paragraph about players choosing to take the Presidency, rather than as a separate bullet point. This, along with the fact that bullet point 2 errantly refers to players, suggests that bullet point 3 may also be intended to refer to all shareholders.

That is to say, if corporations are allowed to buy up or sell down a half share option, even though the rules say "players," should a corporation with 10-40% also be given the option to buy up to a President's share of a merging corporation with an unclaimed Presidency, rather than only giving that option to players?

I think yes.

physic avatar Aug 29 '23 00:08 physic

I considered this, but the the third bullet specifically says "when a player...", so I specifically exclude corporations from this. It's not a terribly difficult change to make, but the rules seem pretty clear to me. Willing to be convinced otherwise. Have you asked the 18xx mailing list?

roseundy avatar Aug 29 '23 00:08 roseundy

LOL I have not. I suppose it can't hurt.

physic avatar Aug 29 '23 00:08 physic

The court of opinion has been polled. Let's see what they have to say.

physic avatar Aug 29 '23 01:08 physic

Steve Thomas responded to my inquiry on the mailing list.

The rule should say "shareholder" wherever it uses "player". That is, companies owning shares may upgrade or downgrade an odd share, or upgrade a holding of less than 40% to a presidency if the presidency is unclaimed, as they (or, more precisely, their controller) wish. I concede that the rules don't say that, and 18xx.games appears to implement correctly the rules as written about presidencies. It is unclear to me how to implement the rule as written about companies owning odd shares.

physic avatar Oct 12 '23 13:10 physic

@roseundy Any thoughts on this? Confirmation from Steve Thomas makes this worth changing in my book.

physic avatar Oct 26 '23 03:10 physic

I may wait to change this until there is another fix that will invalidate games. Once 41 hits Beta, then all those games can be pinned rather than archived.

roseundy avatar Oct 26 '23 03:10 roseundy