thunderbird
Option to translate the IMAP special folders in the sidebar
Checklist
- [X] I have used the search function to see if someone else has already submitted the same feature request.
- [X] I will describe the problem with as much detail as possible.
- [X] This issue only contains a request for one single feature, not multiple (related) features.
App version
6.509
Problem you are trying to solve
Currently, the IMAP special folders (Archive, Deleted, Drafts, Junk, Sent) are not translated into the app language. I honestly think this is a design error:
- It assumes that anyone is able to understand the English names for those folders.
- The Folder settings insinuate that the translations are to be used, only to show the folders untranslated in the sidebar. This is very confusing.
- It is already abundantly clear what IMAP folder is actually used for the special folder inside the folder settings: they are explicitly mentioned when Automatic is chosen. As such, there is no harm to use the translated names in the sidebar.
I just had a family member come to me in a panic, thinking they might have lost a long email they had just sent. I reckon this is definitely not the first time that would have happened due to this design choice.
What's more, imho it doesn't look tidy at all, and in the ensuing confusion, my first reaction was actually to check on Transifex if the translations were complete.
Related issues (this problem is mentioned, but it is not the core issue there): https://github.com/thundernest/k-9/issues/4300#issuecomment-564115499 and https://github.com/thundernest/k-9/issues/3449#issuecomment-781264989
Suggested solution
Use the app translations for the special folder in the sidebar.
Screenshots / Drawings / Technical details
No response
K-9 Mail translated special folder names in the past and it was a constant source of problems because people couldn't find the corresponding folders in their webmail app or other email clients.
K-9 Mail doesn't care about the name of special folders. If you don't like the name the server is using for a special folder, rename that folder or create a new folder (you'll have to use another client, this is currently not supported by K-9 Mail) and select that (new) folder for the special role. See https://docs.k9mail.app/en/6.400/settings/account/#archive-folder
K-9 Mail translated special folder names in the past and it was a constant source of problems because people couldn't find the corresponding folders in their webmail app or other email clients.
K-9 Mail doesn't care about the name of special folders. If you don't like the name the server is using for a special folder, rename that folder or create a new folder (you'll have to use another client, this is currently not supported by K-9 Mail) and select that (new) folder for the special role. See https://docs.k9mail.app/en/6.400/settings/account/#archive-folder
In this reasoning, I think you're forgetting the fact that by now, most, if not all, other desktop/mobile clients and webmail clients in fact do translate these special folders to their UI language. Secondly, I think the severity of the issue might be downplayed: this way, people who are not capable of reading English have absolutely no idea how to use K9.
I'm proposing to make this optional, defaulting to translating the special folders to the UI language, because:
- It's much more likely that users will have problems finding these folders in the current situation, because they're most likely now also translated in other clients. Maybe it was different in the past, but currently mail clients certainly translate them. It would of course be possible that the translations might have been slightly different (just like in English you often see Junk vs. Spam, Trash vs. Bin, Sent vs. Sent items).
- Many webmail clients do not allow the versatile set-up for special folders that standalone clients do. As such, creating or renaming folders like you propose, just to get them translated in K9, would consequently break the behavior for that folder in the webmail client and require a custom setup of the special folders for every other client.
- If there still is any confusion about it, I'm sure people won't have looked in the account folder settings, because those settings are very clear. Moreover, I'm pretty sure people having issues finding the exact same naming for a folder compared to their other clients (the issue you're describing) would be much more likely to check those account settings, or appreciate an option to "Turn off translations for special IMAP folders", than the people who don't understand the English terms. For this last group, it renders the entire app unusable.
People not capable of reading English could use an email provider that uses localized special folder names by default. K-9 Mail doesn't detect special folders by name. It's using an IMAP extension that supports arbitrary names for these folders. Many providers already do this.
Clients translating folder names should probably stop doing that because it's an interoperability nightmare. What are the chances every client will use the same translations?
K-9 Mail is also using icons for special folders. So even if you can't read the name, it's still possible to find the special folder you're looking for.
Both translating special folder names and not translating them has problems. Clearly there is no behavior that works for everyone. But at least for K-9 Mail the current solution leads to a lot less support requests and works well with providers using localized special folder names.
Adding a setting most people would never guess could exist won't solve these problems.
People not capable of reading English could use an email provider that uses localized special folder names by default. K-9 Mail doesn't detect special folders by name. It's using an IMAP extension that supports arbitrary names for these folders. Many providers already do this.
So you're actually proposing that people should switch mail providers just to have them able to read the folder names in K-9?
Clients translating folder names should probably stop doing that because it's an interoperability nightmare. What are the chances every client will use the same translations?
Translating these folder names makes total sense to me in terms of UX, as opposed to suddenly showing a handful of UI items in a different language. I would argue that an "interoperability nightmare" is vastly overstated, considering we're talking about at worst a different word for the very same function (e.g. Junk vs Spam), as opposed to the user not being able to read it at all.
And as said, for purists who would somehow get confused by this, an option to not translate special folders would be a good solution.
K-9 Mail is also using icons for special folders. So even if you can't read the name, it's still possible to find the special folder you're looking for.
I'm afraid you're overestimating the clarity of those icons for regular users.
Both translating special folder names and not translating them has problems. Clearly there is no behavior that works for everyone. But at least for K-9 Mail the current solution leads to a lot less support requests and works well with providers using localized special folder names.
It's interesting, I've honestly never seen a provider using localized names on their server. Could you name an example? And where would one then set the language used for localization of the special folders? Or wouldn't that be up to the user at all?
Adding a setting most people would never guess could exist won't solve these problems.
I honestly think this would be very easy to find for those few who get confused by this, while there's no feasible way to remedy this for those who can't understand the English terms. Moreover, I suspect that the people who complained might have had set the language to English instead of a translation: in that case, the "Junk vs. Spam" issue has a lot more logic to it than with actual translations of those folders' functions.
I could relate with both points but the related matter is that currently some of folders are translated (because, I persume, they are virtual folders for Sent and Received) and half of them are server native (usually not translated). Overall I think this looks bad UX-wise:
I don't have a quick and easy fix for that. I did spend considerable amount of time digging into why translations for archive_folder exist in transifex but are not applied on my client though. So, at least it's good that this ticket exists with explanations.
I did spend considerable amount of time digging into why translations for archive_folder exist in transifex but are not applied on my client though.
Same here, it was extremely confusing to me. I can imagine, though, that if your app language is English and K-9 used a translation string, it would look like the folder was suddenly "renamed". But that is only the case when you use K-9 in English, or perhaps for the fringe case that the IMAP server uses localized folder names in the language you use in K-9.
The actual existence of an option "Translate IMAP folder names" would have made everything clear to the both of us, no matter what default setting the devs would prefer, and it would allow for consistency in the UI for all cases.
Adding on this thread even if it is closed: the most common clients I have used recently (Outlook , Gmail) use a translation when available. I understand the logic about folder naming and potential issues as discussed above, but an option to restore the behaviour in K9 would be useful too, even if disabled by default. While not a problem for me specifically, this is an issue for family members who do not know English that well. The icons by themselves are not useful at all. Providing a way to use the translations would help usability a lot, and actually allow to use K9 as a simple alternative to other clients.
I would argue that :
- Both TB Desktop and TB for Android allow mapping special folders and name them translated in their settings.
- TB Desktop allow mapping of special folders and show their translated names in its folder tree.
- TB for Android actually show a mix of languages for special folders names
As a user, I would like a consistent UI across TB Desktop and TB for Android. Including folder tree and special folders names.
Here is what a (french) user experience using TB Desktop 128 & TB for Android 8.0b2 :
I tried migrating some of my family off of the default mail client today and this came up as an issue for all of them.
Where is my deleted messages, I do not know english.
The default folders should definitly be localized just like the inbox is. Changing the provider just to get localized names is definitly not a solution if you want any non-technical users to use Thunderbird.
Same here. I've also done some research and contacted tech support for my email provider, but they don't see any problems on their end. I then had an idea - what if I changed the corresponding values in the exported *.xml file and imported it back? But unfortunately, the folder names remained the same.
I have the same suggestion than ltguillaume and NicolasWeb. The behaviour should be the same than TB desktop. Even if we perfectly understand english language, the appearence of K9 is bad with mixed languages. That looks like an unfinished product.
