TerraGov-Marine-Corps
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tgstation
SADAR Changes, added 'Unguided' HE/WP rocket types, Reworked AP.
About The Pull Request
Divides SADAR Rockets into two sections, Laser-Guided and Unguided.
Dumbfire rockets have a higher payload but do not detonate on the tile you hit on, have far lower direct hit damage, and they keep traveling until they hit anything.
Laser-Guided rockets have a lower payload, and keep the current SADAR behavior of detonating on the tile you have clicked on.
AP Rocket has been reworked into dealing 360 damage and 200 penetration, it no longer sunders. It now has .5 falloff and is called a "Kinetic penetrator", being based off of LOSAT missiles. (325/150/100)->(360/200/0)
EDIT: Removed aim mode, no longer doubled amounts of rockets, renamed Dumbfire rockets to unguided after feedback. SADAR Rockets in general now just have 14 tiles of range.
Why It's Good For The Game
Makes the SADAR into a true bunker buster, with AP rockets being your xeno removal wonder but having absolutely no sunder if the xenomorph doesn't die, which makes it less punishing to get hit and survive.
Aim mode makes the Miniscopeless SADAR much more useable, and allows for more dynamic use of it with the newly added dumbfire rockets.
Unguided rockets should allow for more unique use of the SADAR itself and busting defenses with it, while Laser-Guided rockets have old style SADAR of precision application of hurt rather than total devastation.
AP now works like the high-end hurt machine it should be, but it no longer punishes with insanely high sunder, use LG HE for that.
Changelog
:cl: balance: SADAR Rework- Has Aim mode (1.4 seconds to aim.) Unguided rockets that go past your clicks added, they have a much higher payload compared to normal rockets, AP rocket reworked from 325Dam/150Pen/100Sunder to 360Dam/200Pen/0Sunder. balance: SADAR rockets in general have 14 tiles of max travel distance in general, includes unguided and laser guided missiles. /:cl:
This is one heck of a powercreep PR if I've ever seen one. Let's break this down.
General changes
- You gave SADAR aim mode. I'm not going to elaborate on this one, and all I will ask is: Why?
- You doubled the amount of rockets gained in requisitions orders. except for AP, which is instead 1 point cheaper. Very much unnecessary, and hardly justified, given what I'm looking at.
AP rocket
Does no sunder now. But, here's the catch, which makes it even worse than before: 320 damage increased to 360, and 150 penetration raised to 200, as if the previous value wasn't already enough to skip armor entirely. 0.5 damage falloff is practically meaningless -- after 6 tiles traveled, that's 3 less damage. It would have to travel 80 tiles to go down to the previous value of 320, which was already very high by xeno health standards. So with that in mind, let's take a look at the implications of these changes:
- Instantly kills Runners and Wraiths, skipping crit. Yes, this does so much damage that they just die.
- Will knock the following castes straight into crit: Drones, Sentinels, Defenders (through Crest Defense and Fortify, too), Hunters, Bulls, Warriors, Hivelords, Carriers, and Boilers.
- The following castes barely survive: Widow, Praetorian, Defiler, Crusher, and Shrike.
- Only Gorger, Queen, and King survive with more health remaining than the rest of the castes.
The sunder change is meaningless when you're being instantly put into crit. Oh, right. I'd like to mention this: this was tested using Ancient xeno health values. May God have mercy on you if you run into this before Ancient.
Dumbfire rockets
New rocket type that, instead of detonating on the tile you target and/or being limited in range to your screen, has 20 range and will detonate when it hits something. Has 50 damage on a direct hit, which is pretty bad. The catch? Ignites on a direct hit, 7 tiles of heavy explosion (high friendly fire potential), 100 sunder.
I wanna reiterate this part: it deals 100 sunder. I'm not kidding, I double checked this on local. I'm hoping it's an unintended side effect of giving it AMMO_SUNDERING and not replacing the sundering = 100 from its parent type.
If it isn't (which, by the way, you should mention it in the PR's description), this just makes it into a way better HE rocket. Full sunder, incendiary, and a big heavy explosion, all wrapped into one neat package -- just for you.
Concluding thoughts
Massive powercreep. I have no better words to describe it. Rockets made generally cheaper and more abundant in requisitions. AP rockets have pointless changes that only make it much more worse to deal with. Dumbfire rockets are just way better HE rockets, with important aspects that have been omitted in the PR's description (see: incendiary, 100 sunder). Aim mode (why?).
Needless to say, I heavily disapprove of this PR as a whole.
Straight up just a massive buff worded in a way that tries to make it seem like it has downsides
Not a fan of these changes. To make sadar used again miniscope would be the way to go. That isn't the world we live in anymore. May as well scrape the pr alone with the sadar.
Aimmode hard no AP rocket undecided dumb rocket yes doubling rocket count no
SADAR's have existed in a sort of grey-zone for a long time now. It seems we can't really decide weather or not we want these to be powerful and punishing, or weak and easy to shrug off. You can't find an even middle ground for a rocket launcher. It has to be one extreme or the other. Completely useful, albeit rare and expensive -- or situationally useless and free from roundstart.
Honestly? I'd rather this than the current state of things.
Make each shell 20 points too to compensate.
The rocket launcher itself is currently free, so this is a good compromise. Maybe somewhere around 10-15 will be better for the long-term once we see how this works through testing.
The rocket launcher itself is currently free
The SADAR is free? When did that happened.
The SADAR is free? When did that happened.
T-160s can be found in the 'Specialized' tab of the marine equipment vendor in limited quantities. Always have been.
The SADAR is free? When did that happened.
T-160s can be found in the 'Specialized' tab of the marine equipment vendor in limited quantities. Always have been.
that ain't a sadar.
Make each shell 20 points too to compensate.
The rocket launcher itself is currently free, so this is a good compromise. Maybe somewhere around 10-15 will be better for the long-term once we see how this works through testing.
It's not. Recoiless Rifle is free which is the T-160. SADAR is the big brother of the RR that's 120 points.
Why in gods name is this being test merged, remove the pr already as its literal powercreep.
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id like to say that i literally almost never see the sadar deployed...like at all anymore, people dont buy it,its even more expensive than the gamer shotgun
Test AP, insta crits majority of xenos and i mean criting near death not entered crit, and gibs almost any xeno that isnt past mature just.. put AP back to how it was, dont make AP a butt fuck rocket
id like to say that i literally almost never see the sadar deployed...like at all anymore, people dont buy it,its even more expensive than the gamer shotgun
As someone who frequently see's SADARS deployed, being on the revieving end of one is the least enjoyable thing in the game. To be instacritted by a single shot is just fun when youre a t3
throwing this out there. Consider a rocket type that does medium damage, but giga slowdown.
SADAR/whatever
Guh. Not sure why I was thinking of the T-160. My previous points still stand.
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I had a change to play with dumbfire rockets, and they are quite fun to use.
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