Camping site quests

[mnalis]

This implements some (but not all) of requested quests for tourism=camp_site, thus it mostly fixes https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/4198:

• [x] drinking_water=* yes/no quest
• [x] power_supply=* yes/no quest
• [x] shower=* yes/no quest
• [x] 3-answer quest Who may camp here? ( Tents only / Caravan only / Both) for setting tents=* and caravans=* (with OtherAnswer available to set backcountry=yes)
• [ ] create non-placeholder icons

Help needed with icons: This PR reuses icon for ic_quest_drinking_water (which might be OK as it is, or it might benefit from being separate icon, e.g. if all icons have tent+some_image), but has only placeholder icons for ic_quest_camp_power_supply, ic_quest_camp_shower and ic_quest_camp_type. Artistically inclined people are invited to fix those!

[matkoniecz]

It is in the draft state - do you expect review of what is prepared?

Or is it request for help with some part (which one)?

[mnalis]

It is in the draft state - do you expect review of what is prepared? Or is it request for help with some part (which one)?

Thanks @matkoniecz; I've just wanted to give interested people heads up and some extra time (especially as I have to wrap this one up very soon) to directly suggest better wording and perhaps make other suggestions while I work on rest of it. As soon as I implement all four parts (marked by checkboxes) and do basic testing, I'll mark it as ready for review.

It also needs help with real icons and not placeholders.

[mnalis]

Code is tested and looks to work OK to me, so ready for review. It needs replacing placeholder icons however, which needs someone artistically inclined (as noted in updated PR summary).

[mnalis]

(anyway, just a notice that I won't be available to give github attention for some time, so feel free to update/edit/merge this PR at will if you'd rather not wait for me)

[mnalis]

Hopefully I've addressed all comments/suggestions here. If so, all that remains is replacing placeholder icons.

Is anyone artistically inclined interested in creating real icons instead of placeholder ones?

If nobody answers in a next two days, I can try creating icons to make this PR mergeable:

• camp type - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Noun_camp_2695642.svg
• shower - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shower_icon_-_Noun_Project_4336.svg
• power - reuse existing icon
• water - already reusing existing icon

But I'd prefer not to waste time on that if they're going to be overwritten with something else soon after :smiling_face_with_tear:

[matkoniecz]

@mnalis Have you maybe tested this in your own SC version?

[mnalis]

@mnalis Have you maybe tested this in your own SC version?

yes, this one: https://github.com/mnalis/StreetComplete/actions/runs/2789132496, see pics above. I create android .xml from .svg with https://svg2vector.com/ at Android 5+ compat (as I lack Android Studio environment).

Still needs replacing few other placeholder icons, and maybe making this one more colorful? If anyone wants to help, I'd be very glad for any help or suggestions with icons! In the meantime I try to help push this more near completion (although vector graphics is away from my comfort zone) to reduce to load on main dev...

[matkoniecz]

I mostly thought about actual use while mapping.

[matkoniecz]

I tested in on campground familiar to me and I remain unsure whether I should answer yes or no for drinking water question in case where there is fast food pizzeria on camp grounds where you may buy water.

And what to answer when you can charge phone but you need to hold it, as otherwise it will fall into sink (or have really, really long power extender to get it out of bathroom)

[mnalis]

Yes, I've just done a camping bicycle route around lake Balaton with SC camping quest. I've had no problems with answering quests, but I'm of course biased in that regard as I wrote the quest...

I tested in on campground familiar to me and I remain unsure whether I should answer yes or no for drinking water question in case where there is fast food pizzeria on camp grounds where you may buy water.

would this change help?

- Is drinking water available to customers here?
+ Is drinking water freely available to customers here?

Most any convenience shop/supermarket/cafe/restaurant/etc. will be able to sell you bottled water, I do not think that has anything to do with drinking_water=yes OSM tagging. They should be mapped as separate amenities if they exist.

And what to answer when you can charge phone but you need to hold it, as otherwise it will fall into sink (or have really, really long power extender to get it out of bathroom)

Well, the question being asked is:

Can customers charge their phone/laptop here?

and not "How convenient is it for customers to charge their phone/laptop here?".

To me, it is a clear yes - they can. The convenience however ranges wildly (and AFAIK has no clear OSM mapping consensus for mapping such convenience, except in freeform description=* tag of course):

• there might be power outlets near many tent spaces (although they might be all used - quite common situation, so better have extension power cord with you! Also, even if socket happens to be very very close you can rarely if ever put a charger in your tent - unless you use previously mentioned own extension cord)
• there might be one (or few) separate space with one or two powers sockets (so better have extension cord with you, especially if going camping during peak season). You have to decide whether you're comfortable leaving them there unattended or if you're going to stand near it for hours (that risk/convenience problem generally applies to camping - what do you with wallet/phone when you go swimming etc.)
• there might be only a socket or two in bathrooms, and there may or may not be any shelves to conveniently put the phone on). I've done all of the following: had an extension cord which allowed leaving phone on the floor or sink, had a phone in my hand (USB-C fast chargers help a million!), had a flat charger and manually balanced a phone to lay on top of it, had a strong USB cable and having a phone dangle from charger on it like a fishing bait... Still, they all charged the phone.
• there might be no power at all. So you better carry battery backup in this case if it's important to you (alas, gone are the days when phones consumed little energy and battery banks had ability to charge from solar power). Only this case is no answer IMO, all others are yes.

My point is: camping has many inconveniences associated with it, and any person camping more than first time will surely be aware of most of them. And this quest is intended only for campers i.e. people which have payed to enter the camp (and is thus disabled by default).

I would not think any camper expects to have the convenience of their own private power socket (or water faucet or toilet for that matter!) installed in their tent (like they would have if for example they rented a hotel room).

Perhaps putting Other Answer with "Yes, but it is inconvenient" which open alert window with "Well, DOH, rent a hotel room next time instead" :smile: or something less sarcastic like "If it is possible for customer to charge their phone, you should answer yes, no matter of convenience" might help? But I'm dubious.

[matkoniecz]

Is drinking water freely available to customers here? - that should work great!

The convenience however ranges wildly (and AFAIK has no clear OSM mapping consensus for mapping such convenience

If OSM tagging is not distinguishing between this cases and all should be tagged the same then it should be fine, I guess.

[westnordost]

(Just ping me if this is ready for final review. I haven't been following this PR. As usual, icons are not required, I'll make them if they are missing.)

[mnalis]

(Just ping me if this is ready for final review. I haven't been following this PR. As usual, icons are not required, I'll make them if they are missing.)

Thanks @westnordost, I've tried playing with icons but got stuck at transparency/fill issues, so I'd appreciate if you can take care of icons when you do final review!

Other than that, I think it's as finished as I could make it. Two more things need decision, though:

• Is "caravan" good enough US translation in order not to be confused with static caravan? Or should it be changed or some string translation hints be added (and where?) - see https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/pull/4213#discussion_r939736368
• should the camp_type quest be enabled or disabled by default? There have been arguments for both, so it's a matter of commenting or uncommenting the line - see https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/pull/4213#pullrequestreview-1061503670

[mnalis]

recently I was talking with friends and it turns out that in some regions even "is this camping site paid" maybe would be a viable quest

In my limited experience of near-to-Croatia parts of Europe it does seem spammy (see https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/4198#issuecomment-1179793163), but I guess it might differ worldwide. If camp fee quest would be useful in some countries (and backcountry answer as currently implemented is insufficient), I think another issue/PR should be opened, as this one if overstuffed already (probably would need some research where it would not be spammy).

[peternewman]

(and backcountry answer as currently implemented is insufficient), I think another issue/PR should be opened, as this one if overstuffed already

I strongly feel this PR shouldn't be merged with the backcountry answer in its current state; leaving a note when required occasionally would be better than the current other answer which can result in incorrect tagging. Looking at taginfo, more than a quarter of backcountry=yes are also tagged with tents=yes, so setting the opposite for one when we tag the other seems crazy to me: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/backcountry=yes#combinations

[mnalis]

I strongly feel this PR shouldn't be merged with the backcountry answer in its current state; leaving a note when required occasionally would be better than the current other answer which can result in incorrect tagging. Looking at taginfo, more than a quarter of backcountry=yes are also tagged with tents=yes, so setting the opposite for one when we tag the other seems crazy to me: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/backcountry=yes#combinations

@peternewman I'm not sure of which incorrect tagging are you talking about, can you provide an example of what would be marked incorrectly in which case? If user chooses Backcountry camping (no facilities) answer, it will be marked only with backcountry=yes tag (and no other quests about facilities will be asked).

I understand that it might be argued that some additional tags might be asked for backcountry camps too; but surely there is no incorrect tagging if tourism=camp_site gets tagged only with additional backcountry=yes?

Or did I misunderstand your point? You may try this debug .apk if you wish to quickly check what the quest actually tags on which answer and/or wish to provide a screenshot of the problem.

[peternewman]

@peternewman I'm not sure of which incorrect tagging are you talking about, can you provide an example of what would be marked incorrectly in which case? If user chooses Backcountry camping (no facilities) answer, it will be marked only with backcountry=yes tag

Apologies, I'd got caught out by your BACKCOUNTRY(false, false),, not checked the other code and assumed it was going to tag tents=no too. I've added some code suggestions for how to improve the clarity of that a lot (IMHO), including the all-important comment, and a fairly simple extension for how to potentially make it even better and remove the gotcha false values entirely.

(and no other quests about facilities will be asked).

This bit is currently untrue looking at the quest filters, you'll still be asked about water, showers and power even if its tagged as backcountry (where they are less likely and its possibly spammy).

[mnalis]

Apologies, I'd got caught out by your BACKCOUNTRY(false, false),, not checked the other code and assumed it was going to tag tents=no too. I've added some code suggestions for how to improve the clarity of that a lot (IMHO), including the all-important comment, and a fairly simple extension for how to potentially make it even better and remove the gotcha false values entirely.

Thanks, I've added you code-readability improvements!

This bit is currently untrue looking at the quest filters, you'll still be asked about water, showers and power even if its tagged as backcountry (where they are less likely and its possibly spammy).

Ah yes. I've had a mind about disabling quests for them, but after more careful reading of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:backcountry I've decided to still ask for them, as it seems at least some of them are still possible (just less likely, i.e. assumed no by default). And as backcountry=yes is only a small subset of camps (according to taginfo) and camps are relatively rare themselves, I do not think continuing to ask for them would be too spammy. But if there is consensus to disable some of them for backcountry=yes, I'm not against.

[matkoniecz]

From not-a-native-speaker: I would have no idea what "RV" is, even with context.

[westnordost]

Okay

[riQQ]

Also as a non-native speaker: RV is clear for me.

[westnordost]

:shrug: I changed it to "motorhomes, travel trailers, ..." or something