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Quest: service times for places of worship
This is very similar to post box collection times (#85) and opening hours. Churches (and I assume other places of worship) can have service_times that specifies what time a mass takes place. This is visible when one is near given place (service times are usually shown somewhere near).
The app should show as few false positives (=unanswerable quests) as possible. I fear that not the vast majority (and probably not even a simple majority) of all places of worship have some publicly available service time table next to the door.
@westnordost How did you make such estimate? I know that it may be a matter of country but virtually every place of worship in Poland has such timetable available outside of the building.
Edit: I prefer to talk about my surrounding not to make a false statement by accident so the same as in postboxes further feedback from the citizens of other countries is highly encouraged.
From travelling the world.
Even in developed countries, I would expect churches on the countryside not to have timetables because they are only used by locals who know the times.
@westnordost Still I don't know how such lack can create false positives. If data is present the quest can be resolved, in other case simply rejected. I don't think the surveyor would make a random guess in any case.
That is not what I mean with false positives. With false positives, I mean in the broadest sense quests that the user cannot answer. As far as I see, the "service_times" tag does not allow a value like "irregular/unknown/not applicable".
But same applies to opening hours, in developed countries cities you will have those and in non-developed or rural places not necessarily. And that's why even now there is an option to specify when given place is open using simple text (a comment in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours#Syntax) - it is supported by StreetComplete in opening hours quest, service_times has same syntax so one could answer it the same way.
It could also be limited to "religion: christian", because I don't know if others have regular religious activities.
From my experience in Poland catholic churches always have schedule posted somewhere, almost always at the church location.
Many churches in the UK and in Germany will have their service hours displayed publicly outside their buildings. They want people to come and attend, after all. :-) Therefore, I strongly support this request for service times quests. Should be easy to implement as well due to the similarity with opening_hours.
Guys, for these proposals, you must think globally, because these quests will be shown globally. Only because it is the case in your town or (you assume) it is the case in your country, you cannot assume that the quest will make sense everywhere.
@Jotam claims many churches in Germany have service time quests. So I went to a church and checked. This is how the service time table looks:
It is more like an event calendar. To have service times as a quest is out of question if the above picture is not a gross exception to the norm. And I went by a couple of other churches, they all had this event calendar.
What we can talk about is to include christian churches in the opening hours quest. At least for this, every church I went by had opening hours posted. I don't know about other religions and other places & countries though.
Opening hours is tricky, because most of the christian churches I've seen in Poland don't have those clearly posted in front.
So this quest looks more like a country specific, or if we are talking only about christian churches maybe you could consider just the Mass on Sundays. This has much smaller amount of exceptions, from your picture I can see that those are at 9:00, 10:30 and 18:00. That would be a start and if we would get some more input from others we could extend it to other religions/days.
And I am fully aware that what is true in my region may be untrue in other - it was intended solely as small piece of data (that is why I explicitly mentioned that I know that it is true for Catholic churches in my country).
@krzyk I think that because how the specification for opening hours is made in OSM, writing opening hours just for sundays would suggest that it is the only day during which the church us open.
@westnordost: I think your example is indeed a gross exception to the norm. What's in your picture is a specific event calendar for pentecost festivities. But apart from the big holidays, almost every church will have regular service times, like "Sunday, 10am" or "every second Saturday, 6pm." I checked this out myself in my vicinity and have taken a picture as an example, which I can't post right now because of limitations on the mobile website. I will upload it later.
Alright, here's my example which I believe to be more of the norm than the one of @westnordost. I would still very much like to see a quest for service times implemented therefore.
Well okay, this quest could start with only including churches (christian faith), but it must be possible to somehow tag that there are no regular service times. There is nothing defined in the wiki, perhaps service_times="irregular" (localized string)?
I agree (for the beginning) with limiting this quest to the combination "amenity=place_of_worship" and "religion=christian". I also agree to have an option for irregular service times.
IMHO the best way would be to model this quest exactly after the one for opening_hours, which has the option to add a string for those cases where regular times cannot be established. So similar to the option "No regular opening times" ("Keine regemäßigen Öffnungszeiten") we could have an option called "No regular services times" ("Keine regelmäßigen Gottesdienstzeiten").
Oh, and thanks for implementing this!
Oh, and thanks for implementing this!
What, I haven't yet. I just marked it as "okay, is a valid request for a new quest type" :-P
This is actually what I meant. I assume since you have marked this as a valid quest request, you will be implementing this soon. So I wanted to thank you in advance. :-)
Note that "valid proposal" includes issues that will not be implemented by the main author - but where PRs are welcomed.
For group closer to " you will be implementing this soon" see https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues?q=assignee%3Awestnordost+is%3Aopen (note - closer, that is intention - not a promise. Also, things may be blocked for various reasons)
This could be made as a disabled-by-default quest, if you think it cannot be seen from the outside (ref https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/558).
but it must be possible to somehow tag that there are no regular service times. There is nothing defined in the wiki, perhaps service_times="irregular" (localized string)?
Or maybe service_times:signed=no? Would it be counting as "use of :signed namespace" or "we should check is use of such new tag is OK" ( https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=service_times%3Asigned ) ?
I guess that would be ok, as there is also opening_hours:signed=no and collection_times:signed=no. This is not a new scheme, even though that particular key is not used that.
@krzyk Is it established/documented somewhere what should be tagged in service_times in case of church having various services, not only Mass?
For example adoration/vespers etc
There is https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/service_times%3Amass but used 2 times worldwide
opened https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:service_times#Religious_services
@krzyk Is it established/documented somewhere what should be tagged in
service_timesin case of church having various services, not only Mass?
I imagine all of those are just "service times." 🤷♂️ If someone wants to go to a service on Sunday, cool. If they want one on a weekday, also cool.
The one thing I've tried to do that might be novel is when there are separate services per language with a language suffix (service_times:fr) versus the main local language.
@matkoniecz I don't know if it's established but I've done this and it passes JOSM validation.
The quoted identifiers seem reasonable. For anyone lazy, the value of service_times is set to Su 10:30 - 12:00 "Worship & Word"; Tu 19:30 - 21:00 "Prayer & Praise"; Th 19:30 - 21:00 "Bible Study"; Su[1] 10:30 - 12:00 "Communion Service"; Su[2] 10:30 - 12:00 "All Age Service"
I half-implemented it (trigger only) and it was not working well
I am removing it from my own fork right now
@michaelblyons It's closed because "not planned" or "not working correctly".
It is closed as I tried test version of it and it is was not working well.