springfall2008
Development of predbat to control GivEnergy 3-phase Hybrid Inverter Giv-3HY-XX
Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe. predbat does not work with GivEnergy 3 phase Inverters due it seems to being completely different to previous inverters in the way it is controlled. GivTCP is unable to translate most of the predbat requests into anything which works properly.
Describe the solution you'd like For predbat to be able to control the Inverter directly without GivTCP. Via REST maybe?
Describe alternatives you've considered I did have a home built automation working, but it is only partially successful. For Winter it could just about cope, but for Summer there is no chance. Some of the needed controls are not available. Combined with lack of any documentation of what all the 3 phase controls available in Giv Portal really do, it is not a viable solution. I did try to work with @britkat1980 to give him access to my Inverter, but we could not get it working. Since then I have moved my HA to a VM on a Windows machine (instead of VM on a iMac) so it might be easier in future to set this up for someone.
Additional context I would like to invite @gcoan or @springfall2008 or @britkat1980 to visit me, or to set up remote access to my Inverter somehow, so that they can try to work out a solution. I have some technical ability, but developing the code needed is beyond me. I am trying to put together a spreadsheet to identify the impact of different combinations of settings, but it is slow progress.
Hi Lee,
I've got a GIV-3HY-11 up and running, there are some issues still being worked through on the three phase based systems (there just aren't many of us running these yet), but you can get this to work well now.
I'm new to this too, but happy to help get you up and running if I can (I have limited knowledge but what I've got working I'm more than happy to share).
I am finding new issues, but this community is great and people really want to help (though my advice is to read the documentaion provided, it is pretty good and to help minimse suport requests we all should try to read the notes first (I've been guilty too! sorry all!))
I've got a GIV-3HY-11 and one (x6 packs) 20.29kWh battery stack.
I'm not running any car charging or iBoost (though I did get the iBoost up and running in the plan)
Trevor
Hi @trevordowling I have same as you Inverter and Battery pack. I am running GivTCP Dev with predbat, with REST disabled in apps.yaml I would love to know how you have Freeze Export, Freeze Charge and others working because I don't see any possible way. I also have no car charging or iBoost but I do have 18kwp panels. I did put together an automation which allowed Charging and Exporting to work from predbat, but latest GivTCP Dev version seems to have made some things better but some things worse.
How are you managing to get predbat to work?
Thanks
Hi Lee,
I've got 20 panels, so less generation than you, about 8.8kw
Have you got anything running or are you trying to set up these specific items (Freeze Export, Freeze Charge)?
You must be using the GivTCP-beta 3.1.1
I initially used v2, then read the docs, loaded v3 but actually failed to execute this bit correctly, so be careful. Advise you uninstal, delete old versions, etc. (I think there were some notes on how to do this in the docs).
I advise you get REST up and running, I've just logged a new issue possibly related to this (TBC), where entities are only available via REST, and remain undefined if not but within GivTCP rather than PB. So please get REST running.
Not 100% sure on what I have running in terms of Freeze Export and Freeze Charge, as I've just basically let the system run.
My basic operation is as follows:
- Before midnight discharge battery as export (sell what I have)
- Charge to 100% between 00:00 and 05:00
- Holding at 100% once full until the low import rate has expired (import rate is less than export rate)
- Run from battery, change if solar and export extra
I had initially expected to include Octopus and iBoost items, but at the moment there is nt reason to with the current tariff.
I've experimented with charge and discharge within a single charge window, worked but it looked crazy, so I've switched that off. (You can consolidate things to make this possibly worthwhile).
Current plan as of now
[image: image.png]
Today so far - you can see I charged the battery to full, it held it there until my 5am window (low cost - lower than export, so makes sense to hold the battery at 100%).
[image: image.png]
The early attempt to extract more out of the low cost window - but IMHO it's not worth the extra battery 'hammering', but a good exercise.
[image: image.png]
On Fri, Feb 28, 2025 at 3:43 PM LeeFarm11 @.***> wrote:
Hi @trevordowling https://github.com/trevordowling I have same as you Inverter and Battery pack. I am running GivTCP Dev with predbat, with REST disabled in apps.yaml I would love to know how you have Freeze Export, Freeze Charge and others working because I don't see any possible way. I also have no car charging or iBoost but I do have 18kwp panels. I did put together an automation which allowed Charging and Exporting to work from predbat, but latest GivTCP Dev version seems to have made some things better but some things worse.
How are you managing to get predbat to work?
Thanks
— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2690977039, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BOLDBMIN2X4MHHUUHQBYXHD2SB73TAVCNFSM6AAAAABYB6XGRWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDMOJQHE3TOMBTHE . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***> [image: LeeFarm11]LeeFarm11 left a comment (springfall2008/batpred#2057) https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2690977039
Hi @trevordowling https://github.com/trevordowling I have same as you Inverter and Battery pack. I am running GivTCP Dev with predbat, with REST disabled in apps.yaml I would love to know how you have Freeze Export, Freeze Charge and others working because I don't see any possible way. I also have no car charging or iBoost but I do have 18kwp panels. I did put together an automation which allowed Charging and Exporting to work from predbat, but latest GivTCP Dev version seems to have made some things better but some things worse.
How are you managing to get predbat to work?
Thanks
— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2690977039, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BOLDBMIN2X4MHHUUHQBYXHD2SB73TAVCNFSM6AAAAABYB6XGRWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDMOJQHE3TOMBTHE . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>
Hi.
I am using GivTCP Dev.
The images don't show in your post. But that sounds like you are just using a fixed schedule same every day, with manual interventions, not using predbat at all?
Hi Lee,
No - Predbat is full up and running and controlling the system (appologies that the images didn't load)
Current plan as of now
Today so far - you can see I charged the battery to full, it held it there until my 5am window (low cost - lower than export, so makes sense to hold the battery at 100%).
The early attempt to extract more out of the low cost window - but IMHO it's not worth the extra battery 'hammering', but a good exercise.
The plan for the next period
Oh WOW! This is without any additional automations or aliases and helpers etc?
I have been using GivTCP DEV. Should I run Beta instead?
And Enable REST in apps.yaml?
Anything else?
Hi Lee,
Yes...
You need to upgrade to the Beta version on GivTCP. I'm running PB 8.15.1.
It is PredBat just working...
There are still some gremlins here and there but that's true for the GivEnergy apps too... so all we can do is all help to address, fix and work around things as they comlatest Beta version and the latest release of PB 8.15.1.
I'm more than happy to help review your config files.
I've been working on this since Dec but only got my smart meter a couple of weeks ago.
You can see that the complexity can be set just by adjusting the settings, but be careful, I ran in demo mode for some time trying to understand how it all hangs together.
I worked with one developer last week, who's card didn't support the three phase system. With some help and back and forth, it now works well. Entity names different between 1 and 3 phase system.
This will work, yes, my plan is now much simpler than expected, but as gas is 6p, electric 8p and export is 15p, it makes sense.
The iBoost may still make a return on my side, but only as an engineering project. I'm aiming to extend the control of an iBoost system directly from HA, and not their clamp.
Trevor
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025, 21:34 LeeFarm11, @.***> wrote:
Oh WOW! This is without any additional automations or aliases and helpers etc?
I have been using GivTCP DEV. Should I run Beta instead?
And Enable REST in apps.yaml?
Anything else?
— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2691584224, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BOLDBMMAWNFKWVH7JCBA4OD2SDJADAVCNFSM6AAAAABYB6XGRWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDMOJRGU4DIMRSGQ . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***> [image: LeeFarm11]LeeFarm11 left a comment (springfall2008/batpred#2057) https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2691584224
Oh WOW! This is without any additional automations or aliases and helpers etc?
I have been using GivTCP DEV. Should I run Beta instead?
And Enable REST in apps.yaml?
Anything else?
— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2691584224, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BOLDBMMAWNFKWVH7JCBA4OD2SDJADAVCNFSM6AAAAABYB6XGRWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDMOJRGU4DIMRSGQ . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>
Today is very sunny and my predbat plan is suggesting to allow the battery to get full by 10:30. Then all the Solar will try to go to the grid. You see 6.07kwh and 6.03kwh per half hour in the plan being generated but this is obviously above 11kw, so the Inverter will instead limit itself and throw away any excess over 11kw. I would expect it to do some exporting before 100% to keep some capacity in the battery to allow none of the Solar to be wasted.
@gcoan I know this is not the correct place to post this but are you able to help identify why predbat does this strange plan? I assume other users have this issue and I have seen it mentioned on FaceBook but I don't recall a solution. I am unable to identify why this happens.
@trevordowling This also illustrates why I need Freeze Export and Freeze Charge working. I have not yet had chance to test your proposal. With this amount of Sun and without yet having tested, I need today to export manually to prevent clipping.
You see 6.07kwh and 6.03kwh per half hour in the plan being generated but this is obviously above 11kw, so the Inverter will instead limit itself and throw away any excess over 11kw. I would expect it to do some exporting before 100% to keep some capacity in the battery to allow none of the Solar to be wasted
Crazy amount of solar you are generating and we're only just out of winter! I thought my predicted 2.6kWh per hour was good, although I'm exceeding that with 7.7kW power at the moment.
This is a problem with predbat, it doesn't handle solar clipping particularly well (yet). There have been quite a bit of discussion about it, with two possible strategies discussed:
- Export a bit from the battery earlier on (whilst the sun isn't as strong) to leave room for more battery charging - this is what you suggested
- Stop battery charging completely earlier on to leave space, then trickle feed charging so as to still fill the battery but not exceed export limits
See #1937 and #1206
Its possible we'll never get a perfect totally automated predbat plan that does everything everyone wants because it needs a more intimate knowledge of setup, shading, limits, battery sizes, etc. I have particular problems with dissimilar battery sizes on my two inverters that Predbat doesn't recognise as such. Personally I favour option 2 but others prefer option 1.
The thinking at the moment is about getting predbat as good as it can be and then have automations around the side that control Predbat, possibly via the manual API. Last summer my approach was to put predbat into read only mode during the day to manage the charging and stop clipping myself. I'm having to do similar for the power up events we get almost every day at the moment as the dissimilar battery sizes confuse predbat.
Hi @LeeFarm11 ,
Following on from @gcoan comment, you stated you have 18kwp of panels, this exceeds the 15000w max input of the GIV-3HY-11 inverter.
I'd be concerned you are going to exceed the upper input limits which can't be good. Have you checked to ensure this will safely handle the excess?
I'd of thought you should have no more than 34, 440w panels attached == 15kW input, unless there is a physical arrangment in how these panels are arranged stopping them from all being in the full sun at the same time.
Trevor
@trevordowling yes I know 18 is more than 15. :smilyface There are many many people with panels kwp above inverter limit. It is recommended that way. We also have quite a shallow roof.
Installed last March, which is why I have been trying to get predbat and GivTCP to play nice for so long. It is why I tried to work with GivTCP developer to support getting GivTCP working properly by giving him remote access to my Inverter. But GivTCP developer does not use predbat and it really needs predbat and GivTCP people working together to understand how the inverter works and how it can be translated to predbat speak. It is why I did build my own automation to support GivTCP where it can't cope with predbat's instructions.
The inverter is fine with 18kwp and as @gcoan mentioned others have the same probelm with this clipping issue. See those issues numbers 1206 and 1937 mentioned above.
My offer for @gcoan or @springfall2008 or @britkat1980 to visit or set up remote access still stands. Northamptonshire.
Northamptonshire is a bit far away for me, but happy to try and get remote access sorted again. If you can get the vpn up and running
Northamptonshire could be possible for me but really Trefor is the predbat developer who knows the code far better than me
I'm in Cambridge (Ely), so also more than happy to help with access, if that's closer for someone
Trevor
Now up and running with GivTCP BETA 3.1.1 and predbat 1.2.4 / 8.15.1. Now with REST Enabled.
Predbat Status - Charging Plan is proposing to Charge from 20:00 as expected. (cheap rate)
Timeslots were set correctly, same as with DEV installation. The 2 Charge switches were set correctly, same as with Dev installation. Charge Up To is set, but like before it uses the wrong Inverter setting. It is setting this for the GLOBAL Charge Up To %, but I know from experience that this has no impact in this setting. I have not yet found any use for the Change Up To % setting or for the Discharge Down To % setting. It needs to set the AC Charge 1 Upper SOC % to the desired target, but it does not do so.
Therefore I have re-enabled my automation to set AC Charge 1 Upper SOC % to be set to match Charge Up To % whenever Charge Up To % changes.
alias: Copy Charge Up To % to AC Charge 1 Upper SOC %
description: ""
triggers:
- entity_id:
- number.givtcp_td2343g049_target_soc
trigger: state
conditions: []
actions:
- action: number.set_value
data:
value: "{{ states('number.givtcp_td2343g049_target_soc') }}"
target:
entity_id: number.givtcp_td2343g049_charge_target_soc_1
mode: single
trace:
stored_traces: 50
@trevordowling
- I have not yet found any use for the Change Up To % setting or for the Discharge Down To % setting. Have you found any use for them?
- Do you also find the same issue with Setting the Charge Up To? Does predbat only ever plan for Charging to 100% for you? Try setting AC Charge 1 Upper SOC % to something other than 100% and see if your setup corrects it? Please let us know.
- I have not yet found any use for the Change Up To % setting or for the Discharge Down To % setting. Have you found any use for them? @trevordowling Not used them
- Do you also find the same issue with Setting the Charge Up To? Does predbat only ever plan for Charging to 100% for you? Try setting AC Charge 1 Upper SOC % to something other than 100% and see if your setup corrects it? Please let us know. @trevordowling I see the same issue - see below
I set these setting in the GivEnergy Portal
But indeed, the charge up to status within Predbat plan remains at 100%
But indeed, the charge up to status within Predbat plan remains at 100%
What that is showing is that predbat is planning to charge the battery to 100% in that period, i.e. its the target SoC Predbat is trying to get to, not any kind of sensor value.
To change what sensors predbat writes to, this is done in apps.yaml (non REST mode). @LeeFarm11 have you tried changing charge_limit from the default 'number.givtcp_xx_target_soc' to the charge_target_soc_1 ?
Predbat Status - Exporting
Note - Since installation I have been getting alert every 5 minutes - Predbat: Inverter 0 Force export set to False at time xx:xx:00
to test this I set my rates_export to this -
rates_export:
- start: "21:00:00"
end: "21:30:00"
rate: 500
- start: "21:30:00"
end: "21:00:00"
rate: 14
As expected plan wants to Charge until 21:00. Then Export from 21:00 to 21:30 and then Charge again from 21:30 to 22:00
AC Charge 1 End Time was successfuly changed from 22:00 to 21:00
At 21:00 the Charging switches were turned off. Then DC Discharge 1 Start Time and DC Discharge 1 End Time were set to 21:00 and 21:31 (yes 21:31....) Target SOC was set to 4% which did result in DC Discharge 1 Lower SOC % Limit being set to 4% as required. However Enable Force Discharge was NOT successfully turned on.
I then turned Enable Force Discharge on manually in the Portal. I think predbat got confused at this point and tuned Charging back on for few minutes, but sorted itself out shortly after. (turns out it was confused. See further down)
Predbat Plan then showing Exporting to 67% and Home Assistant Alert said Predbat satatus changed to: Exporting target 79%-57%. But I see nothing set at 67 or 57, not in GivTCP Overview or in Portal. AC Discharge 1 Lower SOC % Limit does not show in Portal due to a problem with the Portal. but does show in HA GivTCP Overview as Discharge Target SOC 1. Showing 4%
At 21:15 predbat decides that it wants to start Charging again for no good reason so turns on the Charging settings again - increased AC Charge 1 End Time to 21:20 and sets the SCharging switches On, but leaves the Discharging switch also On (seems predbat is not able to read or write to/of Enable Force Discharge)
Then at 21:20 decides to turn off the Charging again which allows the Discharging to start again. Now alert says - Predbat status change to: Exporting target 77% - 63% and the Inverter is successfully exporting.
Then at 21:25 predbat decides to turn Charging back on again. Predbat status change to: Charging target 75%-100%, this time extending AC Charge 1 End Time to 22:00
Here is the resulting Portal Power Graph.
But indeed, the charge up to status within Predbat plan remains at 100%
What that is showing is that predbat is planning to charge the battery to 100% in that period, i.e. its the target SoC Predbat is trying to get to, not any kind of sensor value.
To change what sensors predbat writes to, this is done in apps.yaml (non REST mode). @LeeFarm11 have you tried changing charge_limit from the default 'number.givtcp_xx_target_soc' to the charge_target_soc_1 ?
Yes but the 100% needs to be set somewhere. Currently it is setting the wrong value to that target. That is why I have created my small automation shown further up.
I have not yet found any use for the Change Up To % setting or for the Discharge Down To % setting. Have you found any use for them? @trevordowling Not used them
Do you also find the same issue with Setting the Charge Up To? Does predbat only ever plan for Charging to 100% for you? Try setting AC Charge 1 Upper SOC % to something other than 100% and see if your setup corrects it? Please let us know. @trevordowling I see the same issue - see below
Thanks. Good to know you see same as me.
But indeed, the charge up to status within Predbat plan remains at 100%
What that is showing is that predbat is planning to charge the battery to 100% in that period, i.e. its the target SoC Predbat is trying to get to, not any kind of sensor value. To change what sensors predbat writes to, this is done in apps.yaml (non REST mode). @LeeFarm11 have you tried changing charge_limit from the default 'number.givtcp_xx_target_soc' to the charge_target_soc_1 ?
Yes but the 100% needs to be set somewhere. Currently it is setting the wrong value to that target. That is why I have created my small automation shown further up.
Doh! You're right. As usual. Instead of running my automation I can change it here in apps.yaml -
charge_limit:
- number.givtcp_{geserial}_target_soc
I have now changed it to
charge_limit:
#- number.givtcp_{geserial}_target_soc
- number.givtcp_{geserial}_charge_target_soc_1
and I have disabled my automation
Thanks
For turning on Export not working, and I suspect relating to the error every 5 minutes (Predbat: Inverter 0 Force export set to False at time xx:xx:00), we need to turn on this switch shown here in the Portal -
This does toggle this switch in HA Overview (works both ways. Switch it in Portal and it updates HA Overview. Switch it in HA Overview and it updates Portal)
Details here -
And in apps.yaml reference appears correct.
What am I missing?
Doh! You're right. As usual. Instead of running my automation I can change it here in apps.yaml -
I have now changed it to
charge_limit: #- number.givtcp_{geserial}target_soc - number.givtcp{geserial}_charge_target_soc_1
Thanks, I was confused by your first reply, looking at what the automation was doing, it seemed an obvious fix if the 3-phase doesn't use target_soc.
Obviously when we get to a working configuration I will add stuff to the documentation to help others, or we have a custom inverter type, or whatever.
One off the list I hope !
Thanks, I was confused by your first reply, looking at what the automation was doing, it seemed an obvious fix if the 3-phase doesn't use target_soc.
Obviously when we get to a working configuration I will add stuff to the documentation to help others, or we have a custom inverter type, or whatever.
One off the list I hope !
So Predbat Status Charging now works (with modification to apps.yaml)
And Predbat Status Demand works.
Now we need to get the other 8ish statuses working.
First Exporting. See my notes above. Anyone got any ideas what I am missing in this post - https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/issues/2057#issuecomment-2692441839
Hi @LeeFarm11 ,
What specifically in terms of Export is not working for you?
Is it the export itself, setting the target level or something else?
As Export for me appears to be working OK - Predbat is exporting battery left before charging again at midnight without any apparent issues.
Last nights efforts before charging - exported about 10kwh's
Log from Inverter
@LeeFarm11
Also - to get the Status Charging working, you made this change to the apps.yaml file.
I assume you also switched of REST to force PredBat to use the entities listed.
I'm I correct?
Hi @LeeFarm11 ,
What specifically in terms of Export is not working for you?
Setting Enable Force Dicharge does not work for me. And it looks like it does not work for you either. Looks like you turned on Enable Force Dicharge manually via the Giv Portal, and predbat did NOT control that change, otherwise it would show Server and External Change Detected. But it shows You and Portal - Remote Control ?-
Did Predbat/ GivTCP set Enable Force Discharge to True at 22:25:38? Or did you achieve it manually or by some other way?
I assume you also switched of REST to force PredBat to use the entities listed.
No. REST is still Enabled in apps.yaml
Hi Lee,
Last night not 100% sure, as i was playing with various settings.
But most nights it seems to have been working fine.
I'll leave it to run tonight without any playing and confirm output tomorrow.
Trevor
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025, 13:03 LeeFarm11, @.***> wrote:
I assume you also switched of REST to force PredBat to use the entities listed.
No. REST is still Enabled in apps.yaml
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I assume you also switched of REST to force PredBat to use the entities listed.
No. REST is still Enabled in apps.yaml
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Also - to get the Status Charging working, you made this change to the apps.yaml file.
I assume you also switched of REST to force PredBat to use the entities listed.
I'm I correct?
Actually, I did not properly test this last night. I now see that the change I made in apps.yaml did not work setting Charge % correct. Because REST is ON, the change I made in apps.yaml had no positive impact.
Because we are trying to get predbat / GivTCP working with REST ON, I will reinstate my automation to set AC Charge 1 Upper SOC % to be set to match Charge Up To % whenever Charge Up To % changes.
@gcoan Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
I haven't yet found how to identify which REST control predbat tries to use for each action. For example how do I find what REST control predbat is trying to use when it is trying to set Force export to False?