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Turnigy 4220 650kv - Sync issue on every firmware
I have 4 Multistar 4220 650kv motors that are causing me no end of grief.
Originally purchased with 20a Afro's and kept crashing. Flashed with latest firmware, made the situation worse.
Figured I'd try bigger ESC's so spent more money on F30a's flashed with SimonK, and the result is as follows:
http://youtu.be/XGV8F3yoW0k
I have about £900 sunk into this thing and cannot fly it without it crashing. I have tried the three latest bs_nfet firmwares listed in kkmulticopter tool, and am about to take a hammer to the whole lot because nothing seems to be sorting the problem. I just want to fly the damn thing... Please help.
Hi, Paul!
Sorry to hear of the issues you are experiencing! :(
I have good and bad news... I ordered some Multistar 4220 880Kv motors last year to test for some issues, but due to some confusion with their database, I received 650Kv motors instead. So, I think I have the hardware you have, which means I should be able to reproduce the problem.
However, in the testing I did with the motors I received, I never saw any such problem! I was using an APC 10x4.7 prop, and I think two stacked for some testing, but as I recall, there were no issues. Perhaps I need to test with very short wires as you have, and with a bigger 4S LiPo. The circuit resistance can make a difference.
Did you flash those F-30As by removing the heat shrink? If so, could you take a picture of the ATmega8 on them or let me know what the date code is on it?
Do you have the same problem with all motors and ESCs, or is it fine on some of them?
Finally, did you try before flashing the F-30As, and would you be willing to try the stock firmware again if not, or another software variant such as wii-esc or even BLHeli to see if the problem is avoided in a different implementation?
Hi Simon,
Thanks very much for your prompt response.
I am using GemFan 11x4.7 props, and have sync issues whether the ESC's are hooked up directly or through the Deadcat Defibrillator board.
The Afro's actually weren't that bad with the factory firmware, I had a couple of crashes and decided to flash the latest FW which gave the same results as that shown in the video.
I was using just one motor to test, then to rule out a faulty motor I tested another with the same result.
These F30's actually came Pre-flashed from a seller on eBay so I never tried the original firmware. I then flashed the different firmwares through the Afro USB tool/kkmulticopter software.
I am more than happy to try any other firmware, just let me know which ones! Can they all be glazed through kkmulticopter software and the Afro USB tool?
Thanks again, much appreciated.
Paul.
Mase007:
I recently tested a HK 9261000003 40A ESC with latest SimonK on a 4822-690KV and got somewhat similar behaviour to yours. The motor got very hot... be careful sustaining the 'stutter'.
I spent a couple of hours changing timing and COMP_PWM settings, but could not solve the problem.
This surprised me as the default + COMP_PWM worked fautlessly with a HK F-30A. I am sure I have tested this configuration with a F-40A and it was good, I just couldn't put my hands on the F-40A at the time I was running the last tests.
I did try BLHeli 11.0 with default Multi settings, and it was faultless.
Good luck... but watch that stuttering on motor and FET temperatures.
Owen
Sure, the Afro and F-30A should both work with the Afro USB tool. kkmulticopter should be giving you the latest versions, though, which are the ones that worked for me last I tried.
There shouldn't really be a "that bad" state -- it should be totally solid, or else the case that matters most is the one where if it fails, you will likely crash (since the controller will try to speed up the motor that is not keeping up).
After work/later, I'll have to pull it out and try again.
When I say "that bad", the crashes only happened with the 20a Afro's on stock firmware on yaw (left yaw, quad rolled slightly to the right before the left motors cut and it flipped over), and punching the throttle very quickly. There was no cutting at 100% throttle and it was actually fairly difficult to make the motors lose sync on the bench, only by violently waving the throttle up and down would the red LED's flash which led me to believe there must be an issue with over current.
With the latest firmware they exhibit the same behaviour as the F30's in the video, i.e. they lose sync above ~70% throttle, and anything other than slowly increasing throttle past 45% causes loss of sync.
Owen,
Thanks for your input, with regards to changing COMP_PWM, I've never compiled my own firmware so is there somewhere I can download bs_nfet with the changes already made? Also, can I use kkmultitool and the Afro USB to flash BLHeli 11.0 and WiiESC?
Thanks again guys, appreciated.
Paul.
Paul,
If you have an ESC with the SimonK bootloader on it and a suitable adapter (like USB Linker etc) then you can try BLHeli fairly easily. You need to get BLHelisSuite which will install BLHeli under the SImonK bootloader, and you can use KK... to put SimonK back... so you can switch between them and answer Simon's questions.
Owen
Paul, re COMP_PWM... I don't know if it is a fix or not. It certainly makes cleaner waveforms on the ESCs I have tried... but I think Simon has other experience. I think Simon has a zip of pre-built modules with COMP_PWM at http://0x.ca/sim/tmp/tgy_2014-04-03_62ec2f8_comp_pwm.zip .
Owen
Awesome, thanks Owen, I will try the COMP-PWM fixed firmware first, then will give BLHeli a shot too.
Will get back to you with my findings.
Cheers, Paul.
Paul,
I recently learned how to flash BLHeli to Atmel ESCs. This thread might help you…
http://forums.openpilot.org/topic/41059-what-is-blheli-and-why-should-i-use-it/
From: Mase007 [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 4:48 AM To: sim-/tgy Subject: Re: [tgy] Turnigy 4220 650kv - Sync issue on every firmware (#46)
Awesome, thanks Owen, I will try the COMP-PWM fixed firmware first, then will give BLHeli a shot too.
Will get back to you with my findings.
Cheers, Paul.
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/sim-/tgy/issues/46#issuecomment-42736409.
Thanks tr3topflyer, I used that to flash BLHeli and it is working much better than the SimonK firmware, with or without the COMP_PWM fix.
I haven't really had a chance to test it fully yet because of work, however initial tests look like low timing helps... Does this make sense? I thought that higher timing should help?
Also, I noticed that BLHeli takes time to "ramp" up the speed of the rotor from a dead stop, is this normal? Once moving it seems to respond quickly enough...
Hi Mase, I had the same issue with my setup . Turns out my motor a NTM 3530 1400kv was mostly responsible. It's a high inductance motor and low inertia and I've had problems accelerating it from standstill. With BLHELI if I setup the timing to low, throttle rate to 9, DEMAG Comp to High it responds quite well. This is the closest thing I have to what I expected from my DIY ESC and just like you I expected the timing to be set to high. The ramp up from a complete stop is a bit slower indeed but let's face it, most of the hard acceleration will be done from 15-20% to maximum throttle. As long as it's not out of sync it should be fine. If you get the chance try to measure with an oscilloscope and a current probe the RMS current from the power supply and the phase current to see if there's a big difference in efficiency between Simonk and BLHELI.
Cheers, Silviu
I have same motor (4220 650kV) and have bad Sync issues with Afro ESC 30A from HK, flashed with "Afro NFET V2014-03-06" on 4S battery. Prop is APC SF 10x38 With 3S I'm getting much less sync issues, but still enough to worry. It happens with simple servo tester, but I've uses short arduino code to ramp throttle in different patterns. Below is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSbb84yjDDI&list=UUObU8CAHGC4hxs-kM1cr_tQ
I did not try changing any of the parameters of firmware yet. Need to figure out how to build it.
With same prop and all setup, but SunnySky 2216, everything is just super-smooth.
b.t.w. I've just set up my ubuntu box to build FW myself. Which parameters would you suggest to play with? Increase MOTOR_ADVANCE in afro_nfet.inc?
I have the exact same problem and nothing I do is making any difference. 4s stutters bad, 3s is not bad. But the system I'm building is setup for 4s.
Just found this zip firmware and it's seeming to work without stutters as of now. Will do some flight testing tomorrow:
http://0x.ca/~sim/tmp/tgy_testing_2013-10-29_8c2cf42_comp_pwm.zip
Still a problem - changed about every single thing in the firmware parameters... I can get it close, but it's not reliable enough to be flown. When it's close, I can get it to fly around but when the FC has to make any major changes to the attitude, it causes a stutter/sync problem and it ends up crashing.
Hi all! I'm new to this SimonK esc and I'm here due the problems with the AfroESC 30A. I was testing my new tarot 680 pro with multistar 4525
Oops... Problem with the phone screen... So.... I was testing my new tarot 680 pro with multistar 4225-610 motors, and in a 3S configuration it seems to fly smooth, al least it was usable, but when I switched to 4S the things gone very bad... The tarot flipped over when I was moving "a little fast" the controls, yaw, roll, pitch... All axes were affected. The motor spins slower or it stops for a little moment and then it SMART again... The result was a nice crash.
There is a way to resolve that?
Thank you in advance! Regards
I'm currently experiencing similar issues, but I haven't been able to check if its because sync issues of is the ESC that is failing, allow me to explain...
Tarot 680 frame, Afro ESC 30a, 3508 640kv multistar motors, 13in prop...
For months it was great, no failures and no sync issues or red flashes...
I had a small crash and from there everything started... I rebuild, did a test flight and it was working ok, but something was doing a "clicking noise"... Like if a prop was hitting a cable or something, but this only occurred on lower temperature flights (spring evening in Scotland) and the red led was coming on in one ESC. Click noise and red LED... Sync issue? Anyhow I crashed again, and had to rebuild.
I did another flight and similar issue, like if one motor is stopping... I flashed all my ESC with BLHELI and just change this parameters:
PWM frequency = damped light Motor timing = high
The vehicles behaviour is the same, but now was actually worst because a motor completely stopped mid-flight and the hexacopter flipped and crash in a horrible way.
Has anyone solve this issue?
Have same sync problems and overheating with Multistar 4220-650kv and Multistar v2 slim 30A ESC (latest Blheli 14), 4S battery
Any way to fix it?
Well, I have tinkered around with this motors, too. It is the 880kv one tho. Three of four are working flawlessly but one is bad. Likewise the same issue. I am flying BLHeli on an Turnigy F20A.
What I found out so far: Nothing helps xD. Neither Demag Comp nor Timing changes anything. I even tried all values for Low RPM Power Protect, Startup Power and Dithering. Also no effect.
The only thing that helps is turning off Dampend Light Mode. Motor response is realy sluggish tho. I have to compare not dampened mode to a working motor and see if there is a difference.
Thor
