scripting
Convert Symantec MORE to OPML on Mac?
Hi, I've been going back over my old works-in-progress, and I found quite a few Symantec MORE outlines that, of course, I can't open with my current Mac. I'd like to convert them to OPML for use with current software and for archival purposes.
I can't seem to find a way to do this. The closest I came was OmniOutliner, which used to parse MORE files, but removed the feature some time ago.
Is there software available that will convert MORE files into OPML?
Absent that, is there a way to get the details of the MORE file format so I could provide that to someone who would build such a converter?
I'd appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks for considering my request.
It looks like OmniOutliner was able to import MORE files through version 3 (https://discourse.omnigroup.com/t/does-omnioutliner-import-more-files/24833/2).
You can still download OmniOutline 3.10.6 (https://www.omnigroup.com/download)
So you could probably download and use that to convert to a newer file format.
Thanks very much for the suggestion. Unfortunately, OmniOutline3 won't run on my machine. My Mac is currently running 4 year-old Mojave (10.14) and soon I'm going to have to update to Catalina to stay compatible with some mission-critical software. I think OO3 stopped working in 2013 with MacOS 10.9, which is the minimum requirement for 004.
I'm looking for a way to convert MORE to OPML using a relatively current MacOS. I'd appreciate any suggestions.
to WidescreenEnt:
Out of curiosity to see if possible, I think I managed to get More 3.1 running under SheepShaver. I say "think" because I know nothing about outliners. I made a tiny outline with More 3.1, saved it,, quit More, then reopened and edited it; etc. (I am running Sheepshaver on a six year old MacBook Air, still on Mavericks.)
It is a fair amount of work to get SheepShaver up and running. Do you have a test case (a file and what you want done to the file) I could try on my machine). The result might help you decide what to do next.
I am a dabbIer in the world of programming, so I realize this might seem like a zany suggestion.
@rogera47 I'm open to zany suggestions. ;-)
All I want to do is take a text-only MORE outline and export it to OPML. (I'm not sure if MORE had this capability) If that's not doable, I'd like to export it to text with tabs to retain the hierarchy, or at bare minimum, just text.
I'm unfamiliar with SheepShaver - did you have an old version of MacOS already, or does SheepShaver take care of that?
Do not take what I am about to say as reliable, but just as the record of someone hacking around.
Using some version of More (3.1) running under Sheepshaver I created a little outline, saved it with the suffix ".txt". Then I managed to get that file over to the world of Mac OS X (Mavericks) and opened it with OmniOutliner. The result looked like the outline I had done in More 3.1.
I then exported that file to an OPML file. At that point, I had to give up because I didn't know how to do anything with that OPML file. Could you give me some guidance?
That ends the "hacking around" I did.
You asked about Sheepshaver. In brief, it is a program which can emulate a Mac running, for example, Mac OS 9 (a Mac operating system that precedes the Mac OS X family of operating systems.)
I think setting up SheepShaver takes a fair amount of effort, so please don't embark upon that effort on the basis of my toy explorations.
@rogera47 you have succeeded! Getting the MORE outline open in Mavericks-OmniOutliner is the goal. OO can export to OPML. OPML is just an interchange format so I could bring he outline into other programs like Curio or Dynalist and retain the outline structure. Also, OPML is a text-based XML format, better for archiving than MORE's proprietary format.
I'll look into SheepShaver -- what version of MacOS were you emulating to make this work?
You can test the OPML using Drummer or the validator, if the file is accessible over the web.
In Drummer, launch the app, it'll create a Notes file automatically, and choose Import OPML from the File menu. Choose a file from the local disk.
In an earlier post I wrote:
"I then exported that file to an OPML file. At that point, I had to give up because I didn't know how to do anything with that OPML file. Could you give me some guidance?"
Scripting kindly responded but I could not carry out the instructions as given. I think it is because I am using a version of Firefox compatible with Mac OS X 10.9.5 (Mavericks). As internet sites keep telling me, that is an old browser.
Likely for the same reasons, I also cannot get sensible results when I try to drag and drop the file, which twitter says I should be able to do. So I am attaching a screenshot of a related file. The file shown in the screenshot is titled:
"TextWrangler_version_of_estate3.1_textsave-2.xls"
The file I cannot seem to make available to WidescreenEnt is:
estate3.1_textsave-2.xls
which is the result of saving as text a little outline I created in More as described in earlier posts.
All for now.
Struggling to convert a bunch of More3.1 files (boy, do I MISS that program). Grateful for the tip about OO3, and indeed, I still have my serial number from that program. But is there any obvious way to figure out how late that program will run? It says it needs 10.4. But what's the last OS it will run under?
IIRC, it's 10.8. The way to be sure is to read the system requirement for OO4, because it superceded OO3 and no longer parsed MORE files. So OO3 should run on the OS that precedes OO4.
Is that really the logic? I agree with "So OO3 should run on the OS that precedes OO4." but does it follow that OO3 won't work on anything that OO4 did? I remember certain bumps in the MacOS environment (Catalina) where stuff before wouldn't work after. Is there a map of those bumps?
[https://web.archive.org/web/20001110100200/https://nogoodreason.com/]
Seems like there once was a MORE to TEXT and MORE to XML translator.
@rkrato -- that was written by Brad Pettit, a member of the MORE dev team.
@lessig IIRC, OG said that OO4 was a big jump to the next OS, and you had to upgrade, because OO3 wouldn't work in that OS. So the choice was between using the next OS or being able to open MORE files.
For more specific info, I think you should contact Ken Case.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20001110100200/https://nogoodreason.com/]
Seems like there once was a MORE to TEXT and MORE to XML translator.
thanks! I had found the archive.org version of the side, but sadly, MORE to TEXT isn't there.
@lessig -- I was able to download the file and uploaded it here..
http://scripting.com/publicfolder/misc/MOREXML.sit.hqx
Now the question is finding a copy of the StuffIt compression utility for the Mac to access the contents of that file.
That’s the XML converter. I was looking for the Text converter.
Lawrence Lessig Roy L. Furman Professor of Law and Leadership | Harvard Law School 1563 Massachusetts Avenue │ Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 496-8853tel://(617)%20496-8853 │ (617) 496-5156tel://(617)%20496-5156 (fax) │ @lessighttps://twitter.com/lessig
On 02 /22/ 22 at 08:39:30, Dave Winer @.@.>) wrote:
@lessighttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_lessig&d=DwMCaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=4z7Si87GUbS-Ttkpfo4fGcMoA-Uf5GAbv3JPUfmRUfU&m=2V7iVEdbBxl54Ascsz1IuXyKeMmKN2z-_uWapILe4F9eohopTmBis6_VtRoNY9G0&s=PXlc9Q_0wUegZwa4-uzrpwbESx-LMAzwbBsnNPDtUp4&e= -- I was able to download the file and uploaded it here..
https://scripting.com/publicfolder/misc/MOREXML.sit.hqxhttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__scripting.com_publicfolder_misc_MOREXML.sit.hqx&d=DwMCaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=4z7Si87GUbS-Ttkpfo4fGcMoA-Uf5GAbv3JPUfmRUfU&m=2V7iVEdbBxl54Ascsz1IuXyKeMmKN2z-_uWapILe4F9eohopTmBis6_VtRoNY9G0&s=dEpEV_sj9JPlv45IJ_AaFK0clMTWrIopRv7Aq9zyEd8&e=
Now the question is finding a copy of the StuffIt compression utility for the Mac to access the contents of that file.
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@lessig -- okay sorry about that, but I think we'll do better with the XML converter than the text converter anyway.
Here's what I suggest.
-
First, find a way to decode the XML converter app using StuffIt or compatible.
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Run it against one of your MORE files.
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Send me the XML it generates (or if it's not too private, upload it and post a link so we generate a record).
I will then try to convert the XML into something you can import, basically convert it to OPML or Markdown. If we get that far, we can have an interesting discussion.
I was able to find this, but didn't have any success getting something useful from it. I'm guessing that these tools won't run on current versions of the Mac OS.
I'm not sure these are the answer to the original question, I was hoping more for possible knowledge of the file format so that we could create a MORE to OPML translator.
@rkrato -- I don't have any MORE data files on my current computer setup. I have lots of backups on disks I can't read.
If someone wants to upload a MORE file -- I'm willing to take a look at what's in the file.
@scripting can you please post the MOREXML.sit.hqx file somewhere else? I'm unable to connect to the file. I have some older Stuffit apps that might do the job.
@WidescreenEnt -- sorry -- I made a mistake typing in the URL. Here's the correct address.
http://scripting.com/publicfolder/misc/MOREXML.sit.hqx
Here it is in a zip:
https://gofile.io/d/25ASy1
I couldn't launch the app because it needs OS9/Classic.
The More 3.1 installer folder contains some sample documents, but I think their creator type flags them as "library" files. Please take a look and see if they can be pressed into service.
https://gofile.io/d/WXyMTM
I found some MORE files on my father's old hard drive, he was an avid MORE user.
You can open them in the TextEdit app, but it's a binary file. So no copy/paste is possible.
I'm not a programmer - can a binary to ASCII converter render something useful from the MORE files?
Does anyone in this thread know anyone at OmniGroup?
They figured out the More file structure already. I think the reason they dropped support was that it was made up of code and frameworks that Apple wasn't supporting in the OS moving forward. They didn't want to spend the resources on rewriting it from scratch.
Since it's obsolete, maybe they'd share the knowledge.