Prusa-Firmware-Buddy
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[BUG] Failing to boot (BSOD) after installing MMU3 on MK4
Printer type - MK4 + MMU3
Printer firmware version - 6.0 RC1, RC2, Final release
Optional upgrades - MMU3
Describe the bug After installing the MMU3, everytime the printer is turned on it tries to boot, it fails once, tries to boot again and then shows a BSOD message (the same message no matter if it's 6.0 RC1/RC2/Final release.
The only possible fix is "touching the cables" of the MMU3 while it boots, as shown in the video attached (you can also see the message in the video). https://drive.google.com/file/d/10S5PZIgaxnuu6wRmS4JdfCftR7sWLvyO/view?usp=drive_link
With support we thought it was one of the two mmu3 boards fault, I tried replacing them but got the same error. Then I bought another printer to mmu3 cable thinking that was the problem, but it's still showing the same behavior.
Support already has a dump file, but feel free to ask for a new one.
As of now the printer is usable if I boot it touching the cable behind the mmu3.
I tried everything, clearing MMU3 eeprom, factory resetting the printer but nothing seems to work.
my money is on bad solder (or cracked printed circuit trace) on the board you are pressing and the rest of the MMU unit. By pressing you are bending the material enough to restore the contact ... looks like a production defect, I'd ask for a complete new unit.
my money is on bad solder (or cracked printed circuit trace) on the board you are pressing and the rest of the MMU unit. By pressing you are bending the material enough to restore the contact ... looks like a production defect, I'd ask for a complete new unit.
I already got a replacement for both the sheep board and the pd board (big one and small one of the mmu3), replaced and doing the same. I don't need to push it hard, I just need to lightly touch it. I also bought a new mmu3 to printer cable, at this point all the electronics are replaced but still getting the same behavior.
I don't know much about boards or circuits or firmwares, but my money is on the actual printer buddy board (I have version 27)
this is clearly mechanical in nature. Something you are bending with your fingers enable the power to reach the MMU (leds on). You could try to push in different places (eg don’t touch the connectors, just the board; push something else, etc etc) to try to find out where is it making a difference
On Apr 24, 2024, at 11:33, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
my money is on bad solder (or cracked printed circuit trace) on the board you are pressing and the rest of the MMU unit. By pressing you are bending the material enough to restore the contact ... looks like a production defect, I'd ask for a complete new unit.
I already got a replacement for both the sheep board and the pd board (big one and small one of the mmu3), replaced and doing the same. I don't need to push it hard, I just need to lightly touch it. I also bought a new mmu3 to printer cable, at this point all the electronics are replaced but still getting the same behavior.
I don't know much about boards or circuits or firmwares, but my money is on the actual printer buddy board (I have version 27)
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this is clearly mechanical in nature. Something you are bending with your fingers enable the power to reach the MMU (leds on). You could try to push in different places (eg don’t touch the connectors, just the board; push something else, etc etc) to try to find out where is it making a difference First of all thanks for your answers! :) I tried touching just the cable getting inside the pd board and it boots with that too, pushing the cable inside the connector - not touching the board. If I reboot tho it doesn't boot anymore until I keep the cable pressed inside again. It's weird tho because the cable clicks and it looks in place (I don't feel any jiggle keeping it pushed or not) - also the cable is new. I don't really know what to do at this point
hypothesis: bad manufactured cables and you have two of the same bad batch. You could try this:
- remove the cable from the machine. Hold the plastic connector firmly and push the cables inside. You should see, by looking in the little holes or on the side locking tabs if they move. From what you described the seem not to be making contact until you press. I had cables that looked good but were not completely pushed in giving the same effect.
- bed very slightly the pins inside the receiving connector and see if it works better (by changing the angle it may make contact)
Any chance you have a picture of the cable itself and the socket where it goes in?
On Apr 24, 2024, at 11:54, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
this is clearly mechanical in nature. Something you are bending with your fingers enable the power to reach the MMU (leds on). You could try to push in different places (eg don’t touch the connectors, just the board; push something else, etc etc) to try to find out where is it making a difference First of all thanks for your answers! :) I tried touching just the cable getting inside the pd board and it boots with that too, pushing the cable inside the connector - not touching the board. If I reboot tho it doesn't boot anymore until I keep the cable pressed inside again. It's weird tho because the cable clicks and it looks in place (I don't feel any jiggle keeping it pushed or not) - also the cable is new. I don't really know what to do at this point
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Sure, here you go! You can find pics of both old and new cable + the pd board https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YdJ2uTDLopkkKX7Hkqpco7Au8qQre-0z
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 12:03, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
hypothesis: bad manufactured cables and you have two of the same bad batch. You could try this:
- remove the cable from the machine. Hold the plastic connector firmly and push the cables inside. You should see, by looking in the little holes or on the side locking tabs if they move. From what you described the seem not to be making contact until you press. I had cables that looked good but were not completely pushed in giving the same effect.
- bed very slightly the pins inside the receiving connector and see if it works better (by changing the angle it may make contact)
Any chance you have a picture of the cable itself and the socket where it goes in?
On Apr 24, 2024, at 11:54, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
this is clearly mechanical in nature. Something you are bending with your fingers enable the power to reach the MMU (leds on). You could try to push in different places (eg don’t touch the connectors, just the board; push something else, etc etc) to try to find out where is it making a difference First of all thanks for your answers! :) I tried touching just the cable getting inside the pd board and it boots with that too, pushing the cable inside the connector - not touching the board. If I reboot tho it doesn't boot anymore until I keep the cable pressed inside again. It's weird tho because the cable clicks and it looks in place (I don't feel any jiggle keeping it pushed or not) - also the cable is new. I don't really know what to do at this point
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I’d try VERY GENTLY with a pin or a very little pointy object to bend the female contacts on the receiving board a little out and see if this makes a difference; not so much that the connector doesn’t fit anymore but just enough to be sure they touch well-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 24 Apr 2024, at 12:21, pars3cproton @.***> wrote: Sure, here you go!
You can find pics of both old and new cable + the pd board
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YdJ2uTDLopkkKX7Hkqpco7Au8qQre-0z
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 12:03, Massimo Castelli @.***>
wrote:
hypothesis: bad manufactured cables and you have two of the same bad
batch.
You could try this:
- remove the cable from the machine. Hold the plastic connector firmly and
push the cables inside. You should see, by looking in the little holes or
on the side locking tabs if they move. From what you described the seem not
to be making contact until you press. I had cables that looked good but
were not completely pushed in giving the same effect.
- bed very slightly the pins inside the receiving connector and see if it
works better (by changing the angle it may make contact)
Any chance you have a picture of the cable itself and the socket where it
goes in?
On Apr 24, 2024, at 11:54, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
this is clearly mechanical in nature. Something you are bending with
your fingers enable the power to reach the MMU (leds on). You could try to
push in different places (eg don’t touch the connectors, just the board;
push something else, etc etc) to try to find out where is it making a
difference
First of all thanks for your answers! :)
I tried touching just the cable getting inside the pd board and it boots
with that too, pushing the cable inside the connector - not touching the
board. If I reboot tho it doesn't boot anymore until I keep the cable
pressed inside again. It's weird tho because the cable clicks and it looks
in place (I don't feel any jiggle keeping it pushed or not) - also the
cable is new.
I don't really know what to do at this point
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Since touching sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, couldn't it be a “simple” cold solder that doesn't make contact properly?
that is a valid possibility. I’d try with the pins first (lowest effort). Then, if you‘re handy with a solder, refresh the soldering on the connector. My bet is that one of the two will fix it...
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:08, ClaGre @.***> wrote:
Since touching sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, couldn't it be a “simple” cold solder that doesn't make contact properly?
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Bending the pin slightly didn’t work. i can try resoldering the pin on the pd board, it’s just weird to me that 2 pd board of 2 different batches show the same behavior…
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 13:35, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
that is a valid possibility. I’d try with the pins first (lowest effort). Then, if you‘re handy with a solder, refresh the soldering on the connector. My bet is that one of the two will fix it...
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:08, ClaGre @.***> wrote:
Since touching sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, couldn't it be a “simple” cold solder that doesn't make contact properly?
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oh well, let’s go for another classic: take a metal brush or anything mildly abrasive and try to scrub the contacts of the cable and the board clean from a possible oxydation … if this doesn’t fix it, try to push the cable really well into the socket … I’d not try with the solder before having asked prusa support though…
Another possibility is to see if you cn verify the contacts with a tester both on the cable side and on the board side and see if you find any “wobbling when pressed” … try the power lines first (easier to find and from the look of the problem probably the culprit).
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:50, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
Bending the pin slightly didn’t work. i can try resoldering the pin on the pd board, it’s just weird to me that 2 pd board of 2 different batches show the same behavior…
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 13:35, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
that is a valid possibility. I’d try with the pins first (lowest effort). Then, if you‘re handy with a solder, refresh the soldering on the connector. My bet is that one of the two will fix it...
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:08, ClaGre @.***> wrote:
Since touching sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, couldn't it be a “simple” cold solder that doesn't make contact properly?
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I have 2 of every electronic component, so I can experiment :D i broke the housing of the pin on the sheep board (big one) and probably you were right, those pins are not making good contact with the pd board, since I can just bend the pd board lightly and it works, but if I let go of my hand it doesn’t. I might just end up soldering the two boards together, but I’ll try your new options first!
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 13:56, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
oh well, let’s go for another classic: take a metal brush or anything mildly abrasive and try to scrub the contacts of the cable and the board clean from a possible oxydation … if this doesn’t fix it, try to push the cable really well into the socket … I’d not try with the solder before having asked prusa support though…
Another possibility is to see if you cn verify the contacts with a tester both on the cable side and on the board side and see if you find any “wobbling when pressed” … try the power lines first (easier to find and from the look of the problem probably the culprit).
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:50, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
Bending the pin slightly didn’t work. i can try resoldering the pin on the pd board, it’s just weird to me that 2 pd board of 2 different batches show the same behavior…
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 13:35, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
that is a valid possibility. I’d try with the pins first (lowest effort). Then, if you‘re handy with a solder, refresh the soldering on the connector. My bet is that one of the two will fix it...
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:08, ClaGre @.***> wrote:
Since touching sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, couldn't it be a “simple” cold solder that doesn't make contact properly?
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at least you’ve found the issue :D direct soldering is a little heavy handed though. With all double and a broken connector housing, I’d try to resolder the connector, put some good glue on the broken plastic and try again if this works…
On Apr 24, 2024, at 14:08, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
I have 2 of every electronic component, so I can experiment :D i broke the housing of the pin on the sheep board (big one) and probably you were right, those pins are not making good contact with the pd board, since I can just bend the pd board lightly and it works, but if I let go of my hand it doesn’t. I might just end up soldering the two boards together, but I’ll try your new options first!
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 13:56, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
oh well, let’s go for another classic: take a metal brush or anything mildly abrasive and try to scrub the contacts of the cable and the board clean from a possible oxydation … if this doesn’t fix it, try to push the cable really well into the socket … I’d not try with the solder before having asked prusa support though…
Another possibility is to see if you cn verify the contacts with a tester both on the cable side and on the board side and see if you find any “wobbling when pressed” … try the power lines first (easier to find and from the look of the problem probably the culprit).
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:50, pars3cproton @.***> wrote:
Bending the pin slightly didn’t work. i can try resoldering the pin on the pd board, it’s just weird to me that 2 pd board of 2 different batches show the same behavior…
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 13:35, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
that is a valid possibility. I’d try with the pins first (lowest effort). Then, if you‘re handy with a solder, refresh the soldering on the connector. My bet is that one of the two will fix it...
On Apr 24, 2024, at 13:08, ClaGre @.***> wrote:
Since touching sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, couldn't it be a “simple” cold solder that doesn't make contact properly?
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Not really, but it’s better. Keep fiddling with it now put it in a position where it boots half the time without touching anything 😅
On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 at 12:51, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
were you able to solve the issue?
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I have the same BSOD problem when the MMU3 is connected. The fix for me is to leave the USB cable plugged into the MMU (it does not have to be connected to a computer or anything, which logically shouldn't do anything). Video of it can be found here: https://youtu.be/CG1UNtzrMik Support is also stumped as to what the reason is.
What kind of sorcery is that?? It does work as you said, if I keep the cable plugged in I have 100% boot success!
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 10:30, HaWiWe @.***> wrote:
I have the same BSOD problem when the MMU3 is connected. The fix for me is to leave the USB cable plugged into the MMU (it does not have to be connected to a computer or anything, which logically shouldn't do anything). Video of it can be found here: https://youtu.be/CG1UNtzrMik Support is also stumped as to what the reason is.
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Glad to be of help. :) I agree with above poster who said it might be something with soldering, conductive whatever, but noone knows what exactly. As long as that works (and it does, I printed a 510 colour-change Benchy in 8:10 hours) I am okay with it. :P
… if I were to bet on it, the problem seems to be related to the power lines. The soldering (bad assembly batch) or the bad connection (bad connector production batch) prevent the power to reach the mmu (thus no leds on on the MMU) unless you ‘press’. With the usb cable you deliver power through an alternative path and all parts are now happy.I could also bet that the hw engineers at prusa are already looking at this :)-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 1 May 2024, at 11:37, HaWiWe @.***> wrote: Glad to be of help. :) I agree with above poster who said it might be something with soldering, conductive whatever, but noone knows what exactly. As long as that works I am okay with it. :P
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It would make sense, but the usb is just plugged in and not connected to anything, as the other user said. And I was able to pinpoint the fault to either the cable or the pd board plug
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 12:12, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
… if I were to bet on it, the problem seems to be related to the power lines. The soldering (bad assembly batch) or the bad connection (bad connector production batch) prevent the power to reach the mmu (thus no leds on on the MMU) unless you ‘press’. With the usb cable you deliver power through an alternative path and all parts are now happy.I could also bet that the hw engineers at prusa are already looking at this :)-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 1 May 2024, at 11:37, HaWiWe @.***> wrote: Glad to be of help. :) I agree with above poster who said it might be something with soldering, conductive whatever, but noone knows what exactly. As long as that works I am okay with it. :P
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This is a very funny bug btw!
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 12:13, parsec proton @.***> wrote:
It would make sense, but the usb is just plugged in and not connected to anything, as the other user said. And I was able to pinpoint the fault to either the cable or the pd board plug
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 12:12, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
… if I were to bet on it, the problem seems to be related to the power lines. The soldering (bad assembly batch) or the bad connection (bad connector production batch) prevent the power to reach the mmu (thus no leds on on the MMU) unless you ‘press’. With the usb cable you deliver power through an alternative path and all parts are now happy.I could also bet that the hw engineers at prusa are already looking at this :)-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 1 May 2024, at 11:37, HaWiWe @.***> wrote: Glad to be of help. :) I agree with above poster who said it might be something with soldering, conductive whatever, but noone knows what exactly. As long as that works I am okay with it. :P
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My friend said that that was the reason that I can't be an influencer: I also find the bug to be really funny and interesting. He said to become an influencer I would have had to make a 2-hour rant about it, namedropping other companies that do it a lot better. :P
LOL true!In my case is the ‘I need to find out what it is and fix it’ spirit that gets tickled by this kind of errors. After having looked at the video I wonder if there is a ground problem that the antenna (the usb cable) helps to sway a little so that it works again. It would be nice to hear from a prusa engineer!-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 1 May 2024, at 13:57, HaWiWe @.***> wrote: My friend said that that was the reason that I can't be an influencer: I also find the bug to be really funny and interesting. He said to become an influencer I would have had to make a 2-hour rant about it, namedropping other companies that do it a lot better. :P
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One thing that is tickling me is that maybe the bootloader expect the MMU to react faster than it could and the usb plugged in might put a small delay on it, giving it time to properly boot. i don’t even know if it makes sense lol
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 14:09, Massimo Castelli @.***> wrote:
LOL true!In my case is the ‘I need to find out what it is and fix it’ spirit that gets tickled by this kind of errors. After having looked at the video I wonder if there is a ground problem that the antenna (the usb cable) helps to sway a little so that it works again. It would be nice to hear from a prusa engineer!-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 1 May 2024, at 13:57, HaWiWe @.***> wrote: My friend said that that was the reason that I can't be an influencer: I also find the bug to be really funny and interesting. He said to become an influencer I would have had to make a 2-hour rant about it, namedropping other companies that do it a lot better. :P
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The only thing inside a usb cable is at most a couple of resistors to tell the system that powering the lines is ok… and 20cm of cable in this case…-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any errors.On 1 May 2024, at 14:13, pars3cproton @.***> wrote: One thing that is tickling me is that maybe the bootloader expect the MMU
to react faster than it could and the usb plugged in might put a small
delay on it, giving it time to properly boot. i don’t even know if it makes
sense lol
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 14:09, Massimo Castelli @.***>
wrote:
LOL true!In my case is the ‘I need to find out what it is and fix it’
spirit that gets tickled by this kind of errors. After having looked at the
video I wonder if there is a ground problem that the antenna (the usb
cable) helps to sway a little so that it works again. It would be nice to
hear from a prusa engineer!-From my phone while mobile, please excuse any
errors.On 1 May 2024, at 13:57, HaWiWe @.***> wrote:
My friend said that that was the reason that I can't be an influencer: I
also find the bug to be really funny and interesting. He said to become an
influencer I would have had to make a 2-hour rant about it, namedropping
other companies that do it a lot better. :P
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I have a similar issue with 6.0.0 and a MMU3 on the MK4. Difference is that I think mine is not hardware related. When I revert to 6.0.0 RC2, the BSOD is gone. Re flashing to 6.0.0 and the BSOD is back. Sometimes I'm able to boot without a BSOD.
Also with 6.0.0 there are some random beeps now and then, that are also gone when I revert to 6.0.0 RC2.
For now I keep running on 6.0.0 RC2, without issues.
Hello, Exact same problem here. The USB cable workaround worked perfectly. This is definitely a critical bug/defect...
Ever since I reverted back to firmware 6.0.0 RC2, I was able to boot fine without any BSOD. Up untill today that is, today I could hardly boot at all. So I tried the 'unconnected' USB cable workaround and for now it's working.
I seem to have the same or a similar issue - for me a reliable workaround is to press and hold the MMU3's reset button until the bootup of the MK4 is finished. After that, everything works fine.
PS: I will test the "USB cable method" when my current print is finished. Edit: The USB cable method seems to work 9 out of 10 times.
Just a thought: Is there maybe a floating input somewhere that can, depending on the read value, delay or otherwise influence the MMU3 boot process?