NVDA does not announce Copied to clipboard in windows mail

[gauravahir28]

Steps to reproduce:

• Open windows mail application.
• Open any of the email containing textual content.
• Select the text using shift + arrow keys.
• Press CTRL + C to copy.

Actual behavior:

NVDA doesn't announce "Copied to clipboard, [copied content]"

Expected behavior:

NVDA should announce "Copied to clipboard, [copied content]"

NVDA logs, crash dumps and other attachments:

System configuration

NVDA installed/portable/running from source:

Installed

NVDA version:

NVDA 2024.1

Windows version:

Windows 11, 23H2

Name and version of other software in use when reproducing the issue:

Windows mail Version 16005.14326.21854.0

Other information about your system:

Other questions

Does the issue still occur after restarting your computer?

Yes

Have you tried any other versions of NVDA? If so, please report their behaviors.

Works with NVDA 2023.3

If NVDA add-ons are disabled, is your problem still occurring?

Yes

Does the issue still occur after you run the COM Registration Fixing Tool in NVDA's tools menu?

Yes

[XLTechie]

I'm curious. You say this works in NVDA 2023.3. Would you please try NVDA 2023.3 with add-ons disabled, and find out if it still works then?

Also, be aware that Windows Mail is end of life. It will be replaced by the free version of Outlook sometime soon.

[gauravahir28]

I'm curious. You say this works in NVDA 2023.3. Would you please try NVDA 2023.3 with add-ons disabled, and find out if it still works then?

In NVDA 2023.3, it works even when add-on's are disabled!

Also, be aware that Windows Mail is end of life. It will be replaced by the free version of Outlook sometime soon.

Yes, I am aware of this fact, but I am not happy with the new Outlook application. Hence, I have decided to stick with Windows Mail until I found a better mail client.

[CyrilleB79]

Same result with Microsoft Outlook (Office 2016) or Word with browse mode enabled.

The UIA parameter needs to be considered here:

1. With UIA Word document access (and browse mode on):

   • NVDA 2023.3 reports the copy action but only copies raw text
   • NVDA 2024.1 does not report the copy action but copies the formatted text

   The copy of the formatted text is now probably directly performed by the application. Thus NVDA can't probably check if the copy has occurred; thus it is expected that it does not report anything in this case.

2. With legacy Word document access (and browse mode on):

   • NVDA 2023.3 reports the copy action and copies formatted text
   • NVDA 2024.1 does not report the copy action but copies the formatted text

   Why doesn't NVDA report the formatted text copy with NVDA 2024.1, whereas it was able to report it with NVDA 2023.3? It's the only case in which something unexpected happens. Cc @michaelDCurran, it's probably a side effect of the rework during native copy implementation.

[Adriani90]

@CyrilleB79 wrote:

With legacy Word document access (and browse mode on): ◦ NVDA 2023.3 reports the copy action and copies formatted text

That was actually the part that has been replaced by the native copy message afterwards, but since we decided to let the application handle the copy process of formated text, it can not be ensured that it was successful as you described above. In 2023.3 NVDA reported "copied to clipboard" which is all right for browsers because it copies the raw text. Since in MS Word browse mode NVDA 2024.1 copies formated text, the behavior both in browse and focus mode is the same. In focus mode NVDA does not report anything as well. So in short, the message is completely handled by the application whenever formated text is copied unless you use Firefox with native selection on.

Note that for sighted people there is no visual indication either that something has been successfully copied to clipboard, so ctrl+c is always a trial and error action for everyone when it is handled by the application.

[Adriani90]

Thus I am closing as invalid.

[CyrilleB79]

@CyrilleB79 wrote:

With legacy Word document access (and browse mode on): ◦ NVDA 2023.3 reports the copy action and copies formatted text

That was actually the part that has been replaced by the native copy message afterwards, but since we decided to let the application handle the copy process of formated text, it can not be ensured that it was successful as you described above. In 2023.3 NVDA reported "copied to clipboard" which is all right for browsers because it copies the raw text. Since in MS Word browse mode NVDA 2024.1 copies formated text, the behavior both in browse and focus mode is the same. In focus mode NVDA does not report anything as well. So in short, the message is completely handled by the application whenever formated text is copied unless you use Firefox with native selection on.

@Adriani90, please re-read my last comment in detail. Maybe I've not been clear enough.

The most illustrative case is the following: Microsoft Outlook (2016) using legacy access to Word document: both with NVDA 2023.3 and 2024.1, the text being copied is formatted. With 2023.3, the copy action was reported by NVDA; with 2024.1 the copy action is not reported anymore. Thus, this is a regression. So I'll re-open the issue.

Note that the test with Outlook is better easier to understand since UIA notification of "Copy" action are raised in Word but not in Outlook.

[Adriani90]

This is probably related to cursor manager selection, related to browse mode of NVDA, which has originally been uniformized with all other copied to clipboard messages in #9843. I think this message has been removed all together after #16262 has been merged.

Now we have following situation:

• In browse mode two types of copy action are possible:

1. Raw content (i.e. in browsers incl. Firefox when native selection is disabled or in MS Office when UIA in MS Ofice is enabled) and
2. Formated content (in MS Office with UIA disabled or in Firefox when native selection is enabled)

So the raw content copy (case 1) is a certain action, that message still works as expected. But formated content copy (case 2) is still an action which is not 100% reliable and depends on the application. NVDA reported the same message in Outlook for raw and formated copy actions in 2023.3 which was indeed not really expected behavior. Now NVDA reports the message only for raw content copy action and lets the formated copy action be handled by the application.

Maybe this needs a clearer documentation in the user guide.

[CyrilleB79]

When copy scripts use gesture.send() to send a control+C to the application, I agree that NVDA cannot be sure that the copy action has occurred.

But I think that in the case of NVDA 2023.3, NVDA was using the Copy method on a Range object of the Word Object Model while in browse mode to perform this formatted copy. This would first need to be double-checked and confirmed. If it is, I imagine that it is quite sure that the copy action has occurred if the method has been called successfully, i.e. if it has not raised any error.

[Adriani90]

I still think it is best to keep this consistency further on and not add personalized copy to clipboard messages in NVDA for every application. Sighted people do not have such messages either when pressing ctrl+c. So if the application adds such messages itself, then it is a happy side effect for screen reader users. If we add a copy message for formated copy action in NVDA, then people will wonder why this works in browse mode but not in focus mode, why the message is different between browse and focus mode etc. At least for raw vs. formated copy actions we can easily explain the difference. and this is something that should be done in the user guide.