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nostr-protocol
Discussion: PoW that works with Bitcoin or Monero
I would love to write short proposal , of extention of https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/13.md , that would allow to attach PoW that contributes to e.g. Bitcoin or Monero networks.
As it's not fully formulated idea, I decided to open thread so we could do some brainstorming together.
My current ideas are following:
- proof of sacrifice => someone sends to null address, burns + sends 1 smallest unit (e.g. sat) to address that is hash of message
- proof of donation => someone sends to multiple relayers ( + sends 1 smallest unit (e.g. sat) to address that is hash of message
- to be considered if to make list of relayers available, so nodes could check if relayers relay message that donated, gossip with other nodes/relayers about this, and therefore assess their trustworthyness (i.e. if they are worthy donating in future) ... (here we would need to solve problem of someone not broadcasting message to relayer that is claimed to be donated... maybe if relayer does not get message matching hash in some time window, then sends back funds and broadcast proof? => this would be tricky to solve to avoid DDoS attack...)
Good point about "Why?"!
So NIP-13 https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/13.md is proposing PoW.
My proposal is to consider integrating with PoW of some existing networks , e.g. Bitcoin or Monero, so nostr clients could opt-in collaborate with those other networks/systems (e.g. bitcoin or monero daemon) and integrate with those networks (and eventually become great publishing platform for those networks).
Why?
-
Why to spend energy on PoW that only for
nostris useful, when can be done PoW useful to secure other networks too! (which is similar approach to merged mining* !). -
that way users of nostr could either use PoW from NIP-13 or from NIP-outcome-of-this-ticket , where users could contribute to other network security and proof that are not spamming
nostrat same time! -
for synergy of ecosystems - so both could grow and support each other (again, this could maybe help to use
nostras main publishing platform for Bitcoiners and Moneroers, and they could be prooving what they publish with PoW also for their networks , that way giving it pretty nice economic properties of cost of spamming) -
merged mining - is pretty well captured here https://mining.rsk.co/ or https://academy.bit2me.com/en/which-is-merged-mining-or-combined-mining/
You can't just burn 1 sat. You need to pay lots in TX fees.
I also am confused about this idea.
For "proof of donation" I think my ticketing idea may be similar?
POW is precisely a sacrifice because it has no secondary use. The moment you allow ... lets say Bitcoin blocks containing a commitment to a nostr something, this nostr something comes at no cost to the Bitcoin miner and nostr would see it as a gigantic proof of work? Qualifying for spam campaigns?
For individual messages waiting for a Bitcoin block being mined makes no sense neither.
Taking lower target proof of work from a miner ... would work but only for miners.
Merged mining is a time stamping mechanism that contains no PoW for the merged mined chain.
I vote to close this issue as "won't fix".
How about some kind of "proof of stake" where relays would check if the npub has "balance" in the Bitcoin utxo?
ie. "To use this relay npub address must have at least 0.0001 BTC."
This could prevent spamming and user would maintain control of his coins. Relays could implement some kind of rate-limit based on the amount of BTC "staked".
How about some kind of "proof of stake" where relays would check if the npub has "balance" in the Bitcoin utxo?
ie. "To use this relay npub address must have at least 0.0001 BTC."
This could prevent spamming and user would maintain control of his coins. Relays could implement some kind of rate-limit based on the amount of BTC "staked".
You could pull out the coins in the address though. JoinMarket's fidelity bonds fix this: require the coins to be locked up for some time. the longer it's locked up, and the more coins, the more the bond is valued.
You could pull out the coins in the address though.
And at that moment you would lose access to the relay.
require the coins to be locked up for some time
Relay could check blockheight to verify that the utxo has been locked up for X amount of blocks.
Relay could check blockheight to verify that the utxo has been locked up for X amount of blocks.
The benefit with JoinMarket's fidelity bonds is you don't have to wait some confirmations, once you deposit an amount in a fidelity bond address you can't pull it out at all until the time specified expires. A longer lasting or one with more sats is worth more according to the relay. If you misbehave, the bond is blacklisted, and you will need to lock up more coins (which can't go on forever)
NACK All of this requires tying Nostr to a blockchain. I'd rather not see that ever happening.
