musescore
Set any accidental sign for the ornament
Your idea
I propose to rework the system of setting accidentals at the auxiliary notes of ornaments. Either expand the range of intervals so that it would be possible to put any accidental sign before the auxiliary notes, or instead of intervals use just an accidental sign.
Problem to be solved
My idea would allow the use of ornaments to the fullest extent.
Prior art
No response
Additional context
No response
Checklist
- [x] I have verified that this feature request has not been logged before, by searching the issue tracker for similar requests
- [x] This request follows the guidelines for reporting issues
I actually just experienced this, weird that this is the first thing I saw when coming to here to report it. I know that this is not a bug report but I don't have time right now, so hopefully someone can post it appropriately. The short trill on a flute note cannot be set to a minor second interval, and the diatonic (auto) option does not work. We get a c# in the payback on a short trill on b. And when the accidental visibility is set always show and you highlight the trill accidental and select a accidental button on the top tooltip, the editor hard crashes.
And when the accidental visibility is set always show and you highlight the trill accidental and select a accidental button on the top tooltip, the editor hard crashes.
This crash was already reported in #28354, but only when dragging the accidentals from the palette. No mention of the tool bar being involved. I'm adding a comment there, thanks.
I would love this! I'm currently working on a project that uses microtonal intervals and ornaments together and unfortunately MuseScore doesn't support this without using Staff Text and invisible grace notes.
@rsherevenec, could you be more specific about the intervals you are expecting?
@ugurkupeli, I'm confused by your comment - minor seconds definitely work. The example above appears to show a B (not sure if it is actually B or Bb as the key signature isn't shown. But both definitely work:
And the diatonic default works for both as well - it normally results in no accidental. I'm guessing maybe you are trying to specify an augmented unision - Bb to B - and not a minor second (Bb to Cb)? That's not going to make a lot of sense - a natural sign would be intepreted as C natural.
If you have a score where a specific interval or the auto option isnot working, please open a new issue and ZIP and attach your score. But I'm guessing it's a simple misunderstanding. Best fo first ask for help on the official Support forum at musescore.org
Microtonal intervals would certainly be a valid feature request, though.
@MarcSabatella In general, I am not for the idea of expanding the range of intervals, but for simply setting accidentals. I see it this way: for a trill, you can choose an interval (by step value) and an accidental sign, for example, a fifth and a sharp. But if you can't do without intervals in this case, then you could only choose those intervals that would not allow the auxiliary note to have an accidental sign that would raise or lower the pitch more than by 1 tone (otherwise, for example, with an increased prime from A-double-sharp in a trill, the auxiliary note becomes B-sharp, but that's a second, not a prime). And so, it is worth adding (in the turn, for the second) the diminished form (A - B-double-flat), twice augmented form (A - B-double-sharp), three times augmented form (A-flat - B-double-sharp) and four times augmented form (A-double-flat - B-double-sharp). I can't say anything about diminished forms more than once, because everything is debatable with them, as well as with the diminished prime (which can be formed in a trill). The same analogy of the formation of intervals other than a second can easily be built. But... This is all just my personal opinion, so I can be wrong somewhere. (Or even rude?)...
So, you're specifically wanting a way to create a trill from A double-flat to B double-sharp, or similar edge cases?
@MarcSabatella From F-double-flat to B-double-sharp is like a fourth augmented five times, for example.
Sure, one could theoretically generate other such pathological corner cases. But I'm still trying to understand if there is a rela-world use case for this. Tremolo would be the far more standard way to write a rapid alternation between two arbitrary pitches. Is there some professional composer / editor who actually writes trills between F double flat and B double sharp? Can you show an example from a published score? Understanding the real world use cases helps people prioritize suggestions. I have no say here at all, but I have to imagine those who do would be wondering the same things here, so I'm trying to help you make your case.
@MarcSabatella Then it is not clear why a trill is needed for intervals other than a second?
Not to me, in your apparently-contrived scenarios. Anyhow, if you have real-world examples, it would be great to show them. If not, then that is good information too. So either way, I've done all I can to help you clarify here and will leave the rest up to you.
@MarcSabatella Yes, I don't have any real cases of such scenarios, but really, can the interval from the note from which the trill is built to the auxiliary note be different from a second? Are there any real cases when there was a trill, for example, with the trird? I'm not sure.
@ugurkupeli, I'm confused by your comment - minor seconds definitely work. The example above appears to show a B (not sure if it is actually B or Bb as the key signature isn't shown. But both definitely work:
And the diatonic default works for both as well - it normally results in no accidental. I'm guessing maybe you are trying to specify an augmented unision - Bb to B - and not a minor second (Bb to Cb)? That's not going to make a lot of sense - a natural sign would be intepreted as C natural.
If you have a score where a specific interval or the auto option is_not_ working, please open a new issue and ZIP and attach your score. But I'm guessing it's a simple misunderstanding. Best fo first ask for help on the official Support forum at musescore.org
Flute 1 from MuseSounds plays a C# on the trill, instead of the expected C. Setting "interval above" to "auto (diatonic)" does not help. We are in the key of C, so no accidentals. The exact same notation works correctly with Violin 1 for example.
And the second issue is when you select/highlight the natural sign above the trill and choose an accidental on the toolbar, the editor just closes -- I assume it crashes.
Actually all of the wind instruments I have tested now (flute 1, oboe, clarinet in bb, bassoon) have the same issue. Brass and string instruments play correctly.
Oh, I see, ylou are talking about playback only, and specifically MuseSounds. That isn't what this issue was originally about, hence my confusion. I beleive what you are referring to here is covered by https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/20574 and only applies to the short trill / mordent.
@MarcSabatella No, this also applies to all other ornaments. (It is impossible to set any accidental sign for the auxiliary note)
No I mean the unrelated playback issue @ugurkupeli mentioned. It's a known issue only for that specific ornament and only with MuseSounds - see the link I provided.