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Interoperability of Live Share with other IDEs
Have a good day. Our team uses various tools: VS2019, VS Code and JB Rider, JB WebStorm. We want to have a tool for collaborative development for all IDE. The live share could be such a tool, but now while not support IntelliJ Idea family products and others IDE. I think what open source can help all in the current difficult time when because of COVID-19 all engineers community forced to work from home.
I've added a +1 here after being directed here through inquiry about this. I'd like to work on an IntelliJ plugin to help my team collaborate remotely during this time (and beyond - it looks like our remote work is here to stay). Screen sharing tools like TeamViewer or AnyDesk are great for quickly helping someone but lack the finesse of LiveShare. Online collaboration tools like CodeTogether are cool, but push people out of their personally-tailored dev environments.
For me, one of the greatest features of LiveShare is that I can collaborate with my setup (fonts, colors, plugins (like vim)) without demanding that someone else give up their environment or being slowed by having to give up mine.
Please consider opening the API and, if possible, sharing an sdk. I'm excited to work on this.
I've added a +1 here after being directed here through inquiry about this. I'd like to work on an IntelliJ plugin to help my team collaborate remotely during this time (and beyond - it looks like our remote work is here to stay). Screen sharing tools like TeamViewer or AnyDesk are great for quickly helping someone but lack the finesse of LiveShare. Online collaboration tools like CodeTogether are cool, but push people out of their personally-tailored dev environments.
For me, one of the greatest features of LiveShare is that I can collaborate with my setup (fonts, colors, plugins (like vim)) without demanding that someone else give up their environment or being slowed by having to give up mine.
Please consider opening the API and, if possible, sharing an sdk. I'm excited to work on this.
I agree. If you have a diversified team which is mainly using Rider, Vs Code, and Visual Studio that is an organic choice. I think it is ignored in both side from Microsoft and Jetbrains
I don't think JetBrains ignores heterogeneous environments, tbh. I've had licensing for their products for quite a few years now, both through their open-source initiatives and, for the last 2+ years, commercial licenses that my workplace has provided. None of their products are specifically anti-competitive or exclusionary, at least, not to my knowledge. The LiveShare binaries that are used by VSCode specifically prohibit reverse-engineering or re-use without authorisation -- I know, because I looked into piggy-backing off of them!
Opening the API (or at least removing the prohibitions and simply allowing free reverse-engineering) could potentially pave the way for amazing collaboration! I see this as a way for everyone to continue using the IDE of their choice, but able to work with each other.
And I must admit that I don't understand the restriction anyway: LiveShare is free in a free product (VSCode), so what does Microsoft stand to lose by opening the API? I can't see a rational reason not to open it up.
I don't think JetBrains ignores heterogeneous environments, tbh. I've had licensing for their products for quite a few years now, both through their open-source initiatives and, for the last 2+ years, commercial licenses that my workplace has provided. None of their products are specifically anti-competitive or exclusionary, at least, not to my knowledge. The LiveShare binaries that are used by VSCode specifically prohibit reverse-engineering or re-use without authorisation -- I know, because I looked into piggy-backing off of them!
Opening the API (or at least removing the prohibitions and simply allowing free reverse-engineering) could potentially pave the way for amazing collaboration! I see this as a way for everyone to continue using the IDE of their choice, but able to work with each other.
And I must admit that I don't understand the restriction anyway: LiveShare is free in a free product (VSCode), so what does Microsoft stand to lose by opening the API? I can't see a rational reason not to open it up.
I agree. That is becoming a habit for Microsoft to ban interoperability and loose the share in the Market. It happend to a lots of products and they are still doing that. I switch a year and half ago to Rider from visual studio and I didn’t regret it. It is faster than visual studio with almost a dozen features which were missing from Visual Studio for 10 years. I like the Live Share but I think with this approach it will be disappearing too in the future unless they engage the tool with non-Microsoft products.
In 2021, having a collaborative tool and choosing to make it non-interoperable, that does not reflect very positively on your dev philosophy.
When JetBrains finally gets CodeWithMe working in Rider as well as it does in WebStorm and other IntelliJ-based IDEs, this will no longer be a big issue. CodeWithMe already downloads a client for guests so even if the guest doesn't have the required IDE, it will Just Work. Perhaps someone will figure out interop from CodeWithMe to Visual Studio environments - I really hope so because the wall between remote developers based on IDE choice seems a little arbitrary, especially in the light of Visual Studio and VSCode both providing free versions of the product which both provide this collaboration experience.
I guess I'm just not smart enough to see how this is a competitive advantage for Microsoft. And I'm quite disappointed, to be honest. It's not what I'd expect from a modern Microsoft. Perhaps a decade or more ago, when chair-throwing was more in-vogue and open-source was a "cancer".
It's quite ridiculous to me that Live Share, a feature about collaboration, is locked away to a certain set of IDEs, and that way limiting what it can be used for, and how often it gets used. I would love to see some sort of cross platform support.
@mikkelens There is already a cross-platform product where everyone can use the tools they already love to collaborate.
You can already live share your IDE between IDEs based on VS Code, IntelliJ, or Eclipse with CodeTogether either as SaaS or on-premises.
Here's a 4-min video that looks like magic and will redefine reality.
Except for Rider -- sorry folks, but that one isn't supported as it has some architectural issues, detailed in this CodeTogether GitHub issue.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: I'm an employee of Genuitec and CodeTogether is our product.
Except for Rider
That's unfortunate since other jetbrains IDEs have something called (iirc) Code With Me, which is specfically something Rider is missing and I was looking for.
We're looking at how collaboration with Live Share works as a native concept in both VS Code and Visual Studio. The lack of interoperability is definitely a valid concern for people, and I will bring this to our strategic discussions in the upcoming quarter.
Hi - Just to provide some clarity and set expectations here, we’re not actively looking into this today. However, rest assured that we value your input. We will keep this issue open just to ensure we can continue to gather feedback. Thanks.
If the live share finally got into Rider, it will gonna be a revolutionary update for Rider developers to be honest
Maybe 2024 is the year for IDE agnostic live share??
your optimism is refreshing, but I think Microsoft has made their position quite clear here: they'd rather screw the competition than advocate for developer diversity
Maybe 2024 is the year for IDE agnostic live share??
your optimism is refreshing, but I think Microsoft has made their position quite clear here: they'd rather screw the competition than advocate for developer diversity
Completely agree.
MS will never support other products for Live Share.
There is always CodeTogether Live that'd does and which I highlighted here
MS is full of great ideas and garbage implementation. To be fair Ms didn't solve VS issues and every good developer is switching to Rider. If you wait for a couple of weeks, you can get a functional one in Rider too 😄
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From: Todd Williams @.> Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2024 7:54:46 PM To: microsoft/live-share @.> Cc: Mohammad Moattar @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [microsoft/live-share] Interoperability of Live Share with other IDEs (#3299)
MS will never support other products for Live Share.
There is always CodeTogether Live that'd does and which I highlighted herehttps://github.com/microsoft/live-share/issues/3299#issuecomment-1100280393
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MS will never support other products for Live Share.
There is always CodeTogether Live that'd does and which I highlighted here
It still hasn't support rider yet
- as pointed out, CWM doesn't work in Rider yet - they have architectural issues that they've been wrangling for, what, 2 years now? but they're expecting a release sometime "real soon now" 😆
- CWM talks to CWM, so the original point of this inquiry still isn't met: the ability to collaborate cross-IDE. And unless someone opens up their api, it won't happen 😞 I'll be asking JetBrains for their stance once CWM is actually in Rider. If the ubiquitous collaboration protocol has to be CWM because MS is too stagnant to be the leader, so be it.
State of the live collaboration tools space:
Jetbrains CodeWithMe works only with Jetbrains' tools (except Rider).
Microsoft Live Share works only with Microsoft's tools.
CodeTogether Live works with Microsoft's tools, Jetbrains's tools (except Rider), and Eclipse tools.
Rider's architectural issues are no joke. That's why CodeTogether gave up trying to support it. Only large changes by Jetbrains will enable collaboration with that tool.
Disclaimer: CodeTogether Live is a product of CodeTogether Inc which I helped to create.
State of the live collaboration tools space:
Jetbrains CodeWithMe works only with Jetbrains' tools (except Rider).
Microsoft Live Share works only with Microsoft's tools.
CodeTogether Live works with Microsoft's tools, Jetbrains's tools (except Rider), and Eclipse tools.
Rider's architectural issues are no joke. That's why CodeTogether gave up trying to support it. Only large changes by Jetbrains will enable collaboration with that tool.
Disclaimer: CodeTogether Live is a product of CodeTogether Inc which I helped to create.
There is also Zed, which has it's own feature for following and coding together, and only works with their editor as far as I am aware of.
