split "Too hard / Can't see"

[Filip10]

Please split this 2 options.

There is a big difference between them.

If I can not see from available imagery.

If I cannot complete the tasks because I do not have enough skills.

[danieldegroot2]

If I cannot complete the tasks because I do not have enough skills.

Then you should find a different challenge to work on, or close the tab. It is likely other tasks in the same challenge will be just as hard.

As far as I know, in MR's terminology

• "Too hard" means you are able to see an object, but it is not clear what exactly it is you are looking at. This may also be the case if something is only partially visible, or under construction.
• "Can't see" means an object is not visible because it is occluded by clouds, hidden by trees, not visible on any imagery, etc.

Challenges should be possible to be completed by any contributor with some basic osm knowledge -some tasks can be marked as too hard ofc-. If it is completed with 99% of tasks marked as "Too hard" by someone it is either not a proper task[1], or someone is spamming/abusing the task. (This is btw not moderated; in this case you should contact the owner of the task and ask to check the contributions.) Note, difficulty[2] for the whole challenge is given on a challenge's welcome screen and additional remarks may be given in the challenge description.

[1] This is also the case if the task asks the user for local knowledge or surveying the location, which should not be needed. [2] Difficulty ratings are as follows

[mvexel]

@Filip10 if you would like to distinguish between these two, you can add a comment or an MR tag when completing the task. When creating a challenge, you can consider asking mappers to add MR tags to indicate whether a task was too hard or the imagery was bad. You can even design your challenge to only allow certain MR tags. The challenge owner can then decide what to do with the tasks that were marked either way.

Does that help at all?

[govvin]

I think this has more to do with the wording on the button, more than anything else.

@Filip10 is correct that there's a vast difference between "Too Hard" and "Can't See" -- because that's how the button is labeled. What if we simplify it to a button label like "Unable to complete", or drop that option in favor of the Skip button?

You may have many reasons for not being able to complete a task:

• It's too hard
• It's not verifiable from imagery
• The user has to leave the computer, without completing it (kinda like "Skip", I suppose)

If the "unable to complete" button is selected, task can suggest to the user to add an MR tag, to define it further, and help the challenge maintainers determine what to do with it, as @mvexel suggested.

[Filip10]

@mvexel It has helped a little bit, but spliting these two would be better :)

@govvin I think i'ts better to split them into two buttons. If there would be tasks marked as "Too hard" challenge will stay visible in search (Because someone with more experience can do it). When all tasks will be marked as "Can't see" challenge would be not visible in search (Nobody can complete these because there is not available imagery, or it is not visible an available imagery).

[govvin]

Sometimes, "Cant' see" is dependent on the contributor's experience level.

For example, they may not be familiar with other valid sources of imagery that could work, and only relies on the default imagery provided by the challenge.

[mvexel]

Hi all. Thanks for the ongoing discussion. I do appreciate that there is a meaningful difference between 'too hard' as in: this task is beyond my experience / skill level, and 'can't see', which has to do with the quality of the imagery.

For now I will decide that creating an entirely new task status is something we will consider for the next major release (4.0) and not before. This will allow us to have a more in depth discussion about the task flow.

In the meantime, @govvin has a point in that the wording on the button contributes to the confusion. I suggest, to resolve this issue for the moment, to change the button wording. I see two options:

1. Change wording to "Abandon Task"
2. Change wording to "Can't Complete"

Please let me know which option you prefer.

[Filip10]

"Can't complete" is better.

"Abandon Task" is for me very similar to "Skip".

[govvin]

+1 for "Can't complete."