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I have tested with nine.testrun.org which also runs Dovecot, there moving the messages did not change `INTERNALDATE`: ``` 1 OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 IDLE MOVE QUOTA CONDSTORE NOTIFY METADATA XDELTAPUSH] Logged...

I have looked at my INBOX on testrun.org (I do not move messages to DeltaChat folder) and there seems to be some problem in INTERNALDATE timestamping on that day, see...

Relying on `INTERNALDATE` was introduced in #3789 for Gmail which shuffles UIDs when a batch of messages is moved from Inbox to DeltaChat. If `INTERNALDATE` is this unreliable, maybe we...

We can also do nothing because it does not happen often and the bug is actually on the server side, it should ensure that the clock does not jump.

> But there's still a question what to do if two messages have the same. We sort by UID in this case, there is no problem with UIDs. Even sorting...

#### Sidenote: `SAVEDATE` in Dovecot Maildir implementation uses `ctime` and is worse than `INTERNALDATE` for our usage This is reported to Dovecot mailing list: https://dovecot.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/thread/GP6G4VLLS4YKFQNHIHUKUUTEJBW6X7B2/ For [email protected] INBOX which is...

> The problem is that messages are delayed arbitrarily In this particular case there was no such problem, messages were received in the correct order and have correct UID order....

Let's for now close this. We don't want to depend on a central service for this, but hosting our own central relay is even worse. chatmail servers will host their...

> Maybe, if a user has a chatmail account (or several ones on the same server), it makes sense to use the iroh relay for this account for non-chatmail accounts...

There is a similar problem that I actually have, the client sometimes manages to connect this way and sometimes fails. I have to restart it several times, eventually it works....