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Open source the server components of Keybase
There's an uproar in keybase chat about the purchase of Keybase by Zoom.
Statements like this "Ultimately Keybase's future is in Zoom's hands, and we'll see where that takes us." scare the keybase community and will drive away the more technically minded user-base.
Please open source the server components to keybase.
While the Keybase client is open source, and handles all of the encryption + decryption, the server component that streams chats, file transfers, etc between users is not. Keybase will not function if Zoom shuts down the (currently closed source) server component.
This act will help ensure the long term stability of the keybase platform in-case keybase's future is bleak at Zoom.
This seems like an important step in Zoom retaining the value that they paid for in the Keybase acquisition. (admittedly, only Zoom know's what is best for Zoom's value)
2020 strikes again, Iām really bummed because I have integrated keybase into my workflow heavily over the years.
Back to rolling my own again. This one hurts.
There should be "nothing to hide" regarding the server(s) implementation. I'd imagine the worry is that once technical users (probably the majority of the userbase) can self-host their own infrastructure, there's no need for a company to exist.
That being said, I'd still happily pay a small monthly fee for a hosted server even under the circumstances of the acquisition. I'm still preparing to move my documents to another place though. And have been since Keybase became a day to day tool for me, since their business model, and thus any promise of sustainability, was always nonexistent.
There would still be a demand for one central company that is the go-to place for those who don't want to set up their own server. Typically, one of the biggest drivers of demand for a "we host it for you" company like that is when organizations set it up themselves and then decide, after a period of time, that self-hosting isn't worth the trouble anymore. They become more likely to become customers when they know that they could, in principle, go to another vendor or host it themselves if absolutely necessary -- but if they're getting good service, they won't ever leave.
So, +1. I hope Zoom makes the decision to open source the server code. I'm not privy to all the factors that went into their Keybase decision, but from what I can see from the outside, it would make a lot of business sense.
A "feeling" in the keybase community is Zoom purchased keybase for all the smart crypto-nerds who wrote the platform to help them improve the security of the Zoom application + platform. This is all pure speculation though. (and somewhat based on the language at the end of the keybase blog post)
Lets keep +1'ing this issue to show there is a lot of support in the keybase community for open sourcing the server components. If Zoom has good intentions, and are only interested in the skilled developers who wrote it... there is a chance they might agree to opening the server components.
There should be "nothing to hide" regarding the server(s) implementation. I'd imagine the worry is that once technical users (probably the majority of the userbase) can self-host their own infrastructure, there's no need for a company to exist.
That being said, I'd still happily pay a small monthly fee for a hosted server even under the circumstances of the acquisition. I'm still preparing to move my documents to another place though. And have been since Keybase became a day to day tool for me, since their business model, and thus any promise of sustainability, was always nonexistent.
ghost.org exists keybase server could exist too while still open sourcing the code
ghost.org exists keybase server could exist too while still open sourcing the code
I agree, many other open source businesses exist too. But I can imagine the angle would be that Keybase is a tech product for technical users. Still, I don't like the hassle of self-hosting and I'm sure many share the same sentiment and would prefer to pay for sustainability.
A thought occurs: are there any unknowns that would prevent one from implementing their own backend by reverse engineering the API calls from the client? Seems doable, if Keybase itself don't disclose the source.
A thought occurs: are there any unknowns that would prevent one from implementing their own backend by reverse engineering the API calls from the client? Seems doable, if Keybase itself don't disclose the source.
@Southclaws Possibly, but why not just contribute to Matrix / Riot instead at that point?
Possibly, but why not just contribute to Matrix / Riot instead at that point?
You're probably right there. I didn't consider that because I never used the chat features of Keybase, just the encrypted Git and filesystem integration.
@Southclaws Possibly, but why not just contribute to Matrix / Riot instead at that point?
Because it is your next VC funded disappointment waiting to happen?
Possibly, but why not just contribute to Matrix / Riot instead at that point?
You're probably right there. I didn't consider that because I never used the chat features of Keybase, just the encrypted Git and filesystem integration.
This. I believe this is the most difficult thing to replicate, and I think it's what most people want to be open-sourced. The chat is a sad loss, but there are a lot of good alternatives out there for that.
@Southclaws Possibly, but why not just contribute to Matrix / Riot instead at that point?
Because it is your next VC funded disappointment waiting to happen?
For one, it's entirely open source. But why do you say it's VC funded? From their site:
The Matrix.org Foundation is a non-profit UK Community Interest Company, incorporated to act as the neutral guardian of the standard on behalf of the whole Matrix community. It is an open initiative which acts as a neutral and independent custodian of the Matrix standard.
For one, it's entirely open source. But why do you say it's VC funded?
Because it is. Matrix is developed by a startup called New Vector which has already taken multiple rounds of VC money. The Matrix.org foundation is only for the development of the standard, the development on Riot and other software is done by the VC-backed New Vector. The way that Matrix is positioning itself as the 'meta-protocol', bridging other protocols, slowly gobbling different services and communities sure feels like EEE to me.
+1!!!!
If the server source is available, this will allow for a federated group of keybase servers to come up. I personally want to use this as the foundation for a community hosted cloud services project.
The community already use keybase as the primary source of community chat and shared files with the foundation of provable ID for members. We would love to self-host this as a service in full for the group and help others do the same in a simple, easy to maintain way.
If someone knowledgeable and private can please contact me that would like to help and/or make a difference with this project I can help you help me fix it I hope. I cannot find a good friend that believes me, in that, I have a lot of control via a computer genius and his files. Sadly, he is no longer with me, but was an important role in the future of ai...
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 17:30 Dan Shields [email protected] wrote:
+1!!!!
If the server source is available, this will allow for a federated group of keybase servers to come up. I personally want to use this as the foundation for a community hosted cloud services project https://github.com/Cryptorado-Community/Cryptorado-Node.
The community already use keybase as the primary source of community chat and shared files with the foundation of provable ID for members. We would love to self-host this as a service in full for the group and help others do the same in a simple, easy to maintain way.
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The Matrix.org foundation is only for the development of the standard, the development on Riot and other software is done by the VC-backed New Vector.
Not true. All the server side software, and more generally any project under the matrix-org organisation on GitHub, is owned by the foundation, which isn't directed by New Vector. In fact, all the work New Vector employees do on these projects is donated to the foundation. Only Riot and Modular.im belong to New Vector. And even then, Riot's open source, anyone can host it outside of the riot.im domain, fork it, hack it. If New Vector was to take a wrong turn at some point in the future, it wouldn't mean people wouldn't have access to a Riot that didn't.
just the encrypted Git
FWIW some folks in the Matrix community are experimenting with Git over Matrix, which makes sense since the structure of a Matrix room (a DAG) isn't unlike the one of a Git repo š
Gitlab opens their backend and still has a stable business with steady revenue from support contracts. They offer private hosting solutions OR support for self-hosted solutions.
Bitwarden also open sourced the backend, and uses signed certs to open up certain features to paying customers.
"Front and Back open but still making money" is totally viable.
Our company would totally do a support contract with a proxy for the CCP. But anything more than a support contract is a no go...
This really hurts a lot. I personally liked this app, would have paid for it. Our company would have paid for it.
It didn't have to be like this.
Another example of governance ruining a good project.
There's a possibility (and this is purely speculation by an outsider here) that Zoom is looking at the potential to add a potential Slack competitor to their portfolio to provide an all-encompassing solution for remote work... you get the team organization and chat, along with video conference.
I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. I totally understand why you all sold the company. I don't hold any ill-will for that. That said, I think the community would've been really appreciative if we'd gotten some assurance that Keybase as we know it is not going to go away.
I hope this acquisition ends up like Microsoft's purchase of Github. Lots of outrage at the beginning; 6 months later, all is bliss. We love Keybase. Many of us would be willing to pay for it. Please do not kill it off.
@kallisti5 Take a look of www.Maskbook.com www.github.com/DimensionDev/Maskbook and our approach to do it in a much more server less way. But indeed many functionalities of keybase still require a server though
Have to say I was very disappointed and deleted my families keybase accounts already.
I hope they do open source this, but really can't see it happening.
https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/13615 i asked riot team to provide git encryption through riot in order to bypass zoom acquisition :) would be sooo nice to have git over riot
