Beyond20
Beyond20 copied to clipboard
kakaroto
Savage Attacker feat not calculated
The savage attacker feat isn't being calculated with damage.
I believe it needs something like "kh1".
This is kind of a mine field. Most extra sources of damage are not included with savage attacker. But, it looks like some magic weapons would be included (like flame tongue and vicious weapons) because they specifically add to the weapon's dice rather than generically adding dice to the attack.
Unsure if you need some kind of list of what does or doesn't get rerolled with savage attacker.
It's just the weapon's dice that get rerolled. Most forms of things that add damage to an attack are separate from the weapon dice. So, if you use a sneak attack that doesn't get rolled again. None of the paladin smites get rolled again. The extra dice from rage attacks don't get rolled again. The extra damage dice from true strike spell after level 5 wouldn't get added.
Nearly every thing that adds damage to an attack doesn't specifically state that it is weapon dice damage.
Some magic weapons do specifically state that they are adding weapon damage dice.
At the core, at least the basic weapon dice should get rerolled. A dagger, a greatsword, whatever the weapon is. The spell shillelagh would count. I'm not sure if something like flame blade counts. Most magic weapons do not count because they add extra dice to the attack, not adding extra dice to the weapon's dice.
Most of this is based on a Sage Advice ruling from the 2014 rules set and the ability as it existed on half-orcs. https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf
I forgot to include this, but the feat only applies once per turn. Almost any character who would really want savage attacker would get the ability to attack more than once per turn. That means there would need to be a version of the attack with savage attacker and a version of the attack without savage attacker. Or, a macro may be able to be triggered that will provide a dropdown to decide if the attack has savage attacker turned on or not.
This is a version of a savage attacker macro (not created by me) that will toggle on/off critical,rage,magic weapon, savage attacker.
?{Crit|
No,1|
Yes,2{}
?{Rage|
With,2{|
Without,0}
?{Savage Attacker|
With,1[{|
Without,0[} ]
?{Magic|
With,1{|
Without,0}
Go Faster Stripe [[0]][[0]]
[[ [[ {[[2*?{Crit}]]d6,[[2* ?{Savage Attacker} ] *?{Crit}]]d6}k1 + 4[str] +[[?{Rage}]][rage] ]] [Bludgeoning
] +[[ [[ [[?{Crit}]]d6 + 2 ]]/2*?{Rage} ]] [Rad/Nec
] +[[ [[ {[[2*?{Crit}]]d6,[[2* ?{Savage Attacker} ]*?{Crit}]]d6}k1 ]]*?{Magic}]] [Fire] ]]
}} {{name=Attack Results}}?{Crit}{Critical!}} {{Rage=Inactive
}} {{Savage Attacker=Inactive
}} {{Magic=Inactive
}} {{Bludgeoning=$[[7]]
}} ?{Rage}{Rage=**Active**}} ?{Rage}{Radiant/Necrotic=$[[8]]}} ?{Magic}{Magic=**Active**}} ?{Magic}{Fire=$[[10]]}} ?{Savage Attacker}{Savage Attacker=**Active**}} ?{Rage}{Total=$[[13]]}} ?{Magic}{Total=$[[13]]}}```
I'm not sure you're interpreting this correctly,
The description states that you can use one of the dice of the weapon and roll it again. Beyond20 already checks the dice of the weapon and rerolls one of them (the higher dice).
I think that this is behaving as it should.
If you have a clear example of what and how Beyond20 is misbehaving (and not based on conjecture or potentially debatable rules interpretation), then feel free to re-open the issue with providing more information
That's accurate for the 2014 rules for the half-orc race. The 2024 rules work differently and this is about the 2024 origin feat called savage attacker. Those are current and I'm talking about those rules.
I tried to make it clear by calling out that this was about the feat.
In 2024 it rolls "the weapon's damage dice". So, a 2D6 greatsword would roll 2D6.
And, if that was something like a flaming weapon or a vicious weapon it adds 2D6 to the weapon's damage (not as an extra effect). Because they are very literally the weapon's dice, those would reroll with savage attacker as well.
This should be happening for up to one attack once per turn. This should mean it can ALSO trigger during a reaction attack that triggers during a turn other than your own. Because characters can attack more than once per turn it wouldn't get applied to all attacks. This is also true for reaction attacks as cleave mastery can allow you to attack a second time with a reaction attack during another turn and within the same round, but savage attacker would only be able to be applied to one of those reaction attacks, for example.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/1789183-savage-attacker?srsltid=AfmBOorPcPstf1W6ftMgwfEd83w8YEti16XcdJtxpnRJeu-B7gJVqgR1
`You’ve trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. Once per turn when you hit a target with a weapon, you can roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
Player’s Handbook, pg. 201`
I lack permission to reopen this issue or I would. I'll give this a few days then open a new one if this still seems to be closed. Fine if you don't want to fix it, but we need to at least look at the right feat and consider if the application is following that.
Ahh ok, I see where my confusion was, the class feature vs the feat.
That being said, I'm really not sure what Beyond20 should be doing here. Like you said, it gets complicated to know what is "weapon damage dice" versus extra damages, but I'm not entirely sure that this would necessarily be an issue as we do have separate weapon damage (as reported by D&D Beyond) from other types of extra damages (which Beyond20 adds separately).
That being said, I'm not sure if we can just add kh1, because that would apply for the whole damages, not just one die...
I'd have to think about it, we could double the dice, so a 3d8 would become 6d8kh3... but that wouldn't work either, because it should be "the first 3 or the last 3" not "the best 3 dice out of the 6 rolled", so it should really be rolling the damage twice and picking the highest result, and it gets more complex when you have multiple damages... and then with critical hits too.
I think for something like this, it really makes a lot more sense for the player to click on the roll damages button a second time when they want to do a savage attack, and choose manually between the two damages. I've always said Beyond20 isn't meant to turn it into a video game where everything is automatic.. it simplifies some things but the player still needs to make decisions, roll and select what applies and what doesn't. This seems like a good case for that. I'll re-open the ticket so we can have more discussions around it but I'm not sure that we can necessarily implement this easily.
I agree 100% that there isn't an easy solution. This is wildly complex (for this game).
As far as I'm aware the logic basically amounts to:
- It only impacts weapon dice. That's key. So, not sneak attack or divine smite or a barbarian's frenzy damage. Only the damage from the weapon.
- There are ways to increase weapon damage. The only ways I know of (I could be missing some) are with the flaming weapon and vicious weapon. Every other damage addition is a part of the "attack dice" but not a part of the weapon dice.
- It applies once per turn. At low levels this can be easy if you have one attack to apply on everything. But, characters can have many more times than one single attack per turn. So, this needs to apply sometimes and not others.
- The verbiage of once per turn is specific and impactful. This isn't "once during your turn" as per abilities like barbarian frenzy attack, or barbarian zealot attack dice. Once per turn means this can happen as a reaction attack during other turns.
- Because the cleave weapon mastery can apply once per turn, this means that it can also apply to a reaction that takes place during another turn. This means that even a reaction based attack cannot reliably always include savage attacker since it's possible to have two attacks during another character's turn and only one would apply this feat.
- This can also be impacted by critical hits.
My largest concern is that it isn't clear that this isn't being applied to the damage dice when a player rolls. So, they're picking the feat and just ... not getting anything out of it because they don't know it isn't happening magically in the background.
Is there a precedent for Beyond20 announcing that it doesn't support a given feature? Like a hover over tooltip or something? Something to make it clear that the feat isn't supported and that it must be handled manually by the player?