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joomla
[4.3] System menu - direct links
Pull Request to add direct links to the back-end admin menu "System".
Summary of Changes
In Joomla 4 in the back-end the System menu link shows a Dashboard with all System related links. This PR creates direct links under the System menu, while keeping its Dashboard view, similar like the other back-end menus.
Testing Instructions
Click the System menu item in the back-end.
Actual result BEFORE applying this Pull Request
The System menu item opens the System Dashboard
Expected result AFTER applying this Pull Request
The System menu item now has an arrow and 4 tile icon:
The 4 tile icon behind the System menu item opens the System Dashboard The System menu item itself opens an alphabetical list of menu headings from the System Dashboard items. A click on each of the menu heading (of the System Dashboard items) will open the direct links.
Some of the sub menus like Manage and Templates use separators to easily distinguish the different similar items
The menu was specifically designed as a minimal entry point. You're reverting this and I'm guessing you have some UX/UI research to back it. Can you share it?
I have tested this item :white_check_mark: successfully on 4a7c5e37ff79acd7c599170fd7562880f6ab44ad
Tested successfully in Joomla 4.2.0-alpha3-dev of 3 May in Wampserver 3.2.8 using PHP 8.0.15
This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/37732.
why not as another option just as we already have an alternative ad,min preset which is basicaly a vertical version of the j3 menu
why not as another option just as we already have an alternative ad,min preset which is basicaly a vertical version of the j3 menu
Also if the old school is really finding it difficult to adjust to j4 you can add a single input in the installation to set the profile people want: default to clean and minimal (current one), alternative, or this. My point is that some of us spent literally months on this, so a simple pr that reverts all that work is border line a goodbye message…
@dgrammatiko
The menu was specifically designed as a minimal entry point. You're reverting this and I'm guessing you have some UX/UI research to back it. Can you share it?
It's a combination of eight months annoyance when installing Joomla 4 websites, combined with what I hear from other experienced Joomla back-end users.
To explain, lets describe the current "System" menu item. When you click on it you'll get a "System Dashboard". The "System Dashboard" has 8 "Main Task Areas" (Setup, Install, Templates, Maintenance, Manage, Information, Update, User Permissions). Those "Main Task Areas" have 31 different "Tasks" (e.g. Setup: Global Configuration, Install: Extensions, etc).
The problems with the current System menu and System Dashboard:
- The System Dashboard is a bit cluttered with information:
- Too many "Main Task Areas" (8 Main Task Areas) too choose from
- Some "Main Task Areas" have too many "Tasks" (e.g. Manage has 9 tasks).
- You have to "scan" the whole page to find the right Task out of 31 options (yes, I know we need them all)
- The System Dashboard is difficult to navigate:
- Navigating the items is difficult because they are on the whole page
- Large mouse movements are needed to choose any of the Tasks on the right side of the screen
- When you click the wrong Task, you need to move the mouse all over to the left, click "System", and move to the right to select another Task on the System Dashboard. And repeat
My PR fixes that:
- The System Dashboard is still a bit cluttered but if offers an alternative navigation:
- A click on "System" shows only the 8 "Main Task Areas"
- A click on a "Main Task Area" opens a sub menu with all Tasks under that Main Task Area
- Some tasks (e.g. under Manage, Templates) have separators that groups the Tasks in similar tasks
- The new System Menu is easy to navigate:
- Navigating the items is easy because the Main Task Areas only show the Tasks when clicked
- You do not need large mouse movements to choose any of the Tasks as you stay on the left side of the screen
- When you click the wrong Task, you can easily click the next Task. The Tasks on the same Main Task Area are even still open and easy to click.
and a bonus: After my PR the "System" menu item is consistent with the rest of the menus (Content, Menus, Components, Users): They all work with the same navigation (click opens sub items), and all have the same Dashboard icon with Dashboard functionality.
Please test my PR using the Patch Tester. Click on the "System", it's "Main Task Areas" and its underlying "Tasks". And experience that it improves the user experience because you can faster select the right Task, and easily select another Task from the same "Main Task Area", all with less mouse movements.
As I understand it the logic behind not having the menu cluttered with a hundred extra links was that all of the settings on the system page are site configuration and setup and will not be accessed on a regular basis once the site has been launched.
what I hear from other experienced Joomla back-end users
The menu was simplified in order to be less intimidating for NEW users. The so called experienced backend users could switch to the alternative preset OR if they are really experienced they should know that they can create their own preset.
Your PR is reverting decisions that were made on the basis that Joomla should expand instead of appealing only to the existing user base that is constantly shrinking.
I think the system menu is a pain. So this may would reduce the pain for at least one part of it.
tbh, every single time that I go to the System page, I (have to) use CTRL+F to find what I am looking for! :D Example: I search for the word Extension, then I see that it is the Install Section, in the Manage Section and in the Update Section... and I can click on it.
So actually I had thought that a Filter possibility woudl make this System page less cumbersome (a Filter like when you Create a new Module: there you can type a keyword and filter on "copyright" to quickly find the module... which is called "footer" for example).
But I am also in favor of this PR. It was indeed a good idea to have all those 31 Tasks (which are used most of the time when building a website) gathered under a unique System menu item, being the last one (instead of having System as the first menu item like in J3 etc etc :D )
Having an arrow next to "System" does not make it more complicated for a new Joomla user (all the other menu items have the same arrow...). But it makes the daily work more efficient and more pleasant.
My 2 cents anyways :)
@dgrammatiko and @brianteeman I Mike your down votes but a solution would help us more... Because creating websites or maintaining them is a pain.
a solution already exists for those that think they need it. you can either replace the admin module with the alternate_preset or you can add the system_preset
@HLeithner I'm not against ADDING the expanded menu as ANOTHER preset but obviously I'm against making the expanded menu the default. Clean and simple is easier for newcomers and that is something that people adding more UI element should always be aware. Also ALL the links in the system are hardly need to be accessed in a daily basis similar to the control panel in Windows OS, the Settings in IOS, the System Preferences in MacOS, the settings in WP, etc, the pattern is not something invented here, it's the industry default!
@HLeithner I'm not against ADDING the expanded menu as ANOTHER preset but obviously I'm against making the expanded menu the default. Clean and simple is easier for newcomers and that is something that people adding more UI element should always be aware. Also ALL the links in the system are hardly need to be accessed in a daily basis similar to the control panel in Windows OS, the Settings in IOS, the System Preferences in MacOS, the settings in WP, etc, the pattern is not something invented here, it's the industry default!
it doesn't change the fact that's a pain. You remembered the filter I proposed and you started to write? that would really help. Also the problem that you loose context when you any of the system menus makes it much harder. and tbh we have a menu on the last which is normally closed and only open when relevant.
Sure you don't need all of them and that's the biggest problem. normally when you create a website you may need 3-5 of them and it's always the same. looking at the industry standard, for example ribbons in ms office the relevant options you need are all on the "start" ribbon. We have a page with 50 buttions grouped in areas and not in usage (which is technically completely right but ux really hard especially for new comers.
my bigger concern is that it's hardcoded into xml but maybe it's the only way I don't know.
a solution already exists for those that think they need it. you can either replace the admin module with the alternate_preset or you can add the system_preset
Joomla should be easy by default and not after you load another preset (which is also not easy)
Joomla should be easy by default and not after you load another preset (which is also not easy)
Joomla should be easy WE totally agree on that. The problem that all of you very happily forget is that you have 10 years of Joomla experience and you decide what is easy for your level as the default behaviour which obviously is not true for newcomers! Do we agree that 10 years experience and using Joomla to earn your salary is raising different concerns than a random fella that is trying Joomla for the first time? If so then the default should be the lean one as it's easier for them to navigate around and it's following the same pattern that all the systems (OS or other web platforms). Then the experienced and pros need further steps to align the menu to their liking, right? Well as I pointed earlier it's easily fixable:
- add a new preset, eg named expanded
- on the last page of the installation add a simple dropdown with
recommended,alternative,expanded - do the db change for the admin menu onChange
- Job done, everybody happy
@dgrammatiko when was the last time when more options has making something easier? Why do you think that it's easy to go to the system menu and get 50 items at once? including add module here button?
Of course I have 15+ years of joomla experience but that doesn't mean that I like it hard to do things. and that's also true for new comers. Because after the 3rd website they created they know exactly the 5 things what they need on the settings page but also have always to search for them, like peter or me and pretty sure many other experienced Joomla integrators.
I don't need the menu that's only for consistent (all other points of the menu works like this) and it's possible that decisions were wrong and have to be reconsidered. But this setting page is not easy to use at least I hope we are on the same page here.
But this setting page is not easy to use at least I hope we are on the same page here.
So if the page is bad we won't fix the page but the menu. Sure, that's also how I like to solve problems...
But this setting page is not easy to use at least I hope we are on the same page here.
So if the page is bad we won't fix the page but the menu. Sure, that's also how I like to solve problems...
I don't care about the menu too much but it would make the menu consistent, and it seems nobody want to fix the settings page.
There are far bigger issues to worry about such as com_workflows being virtually unusable, com_schedules with nothing useful to use with it, mail templates that dont do what they say.
I don't care about the menu too much but it would make the menu consistent
That's kinda problematic, the decision for the menu was done on the basis that Joomla should attract new users and reverting it return the CMS to the 2.5/3.0 era. As I said add another preset and give an option @ installation so pro users can land on the fully expanded menu without having to spend 20seconds to do the change in the module. I can patch the installation if that's the problem...
There are far bigger issues to worry about such as com_workflows being virtually unusable, com_schedules with nothing useful to use with it, mail templates that dont do what they say.
Sorry, but could you please keep the discussion about this PR. No need for whataboutism. Thanks!
I have tested this item :white_check_mark: successfully on 4a7c5e37ff79acd7c599170fd7562880f6ab44ad
similar like the other back-end menus.
:+1:
This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/37732.
I have tested this item :white_check_mark: successfully on 4a7c5e37ff79acd7c599170fd7562880f6ab44ad
This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/37732.
The PR has 2 good tests so it could be set to RTC, but I don't really understand the code style changes introduced by this PR. Since when do we indent 2 tabs instead of one for each level of indentation in an XML file?
Since when do we indent 2 tabs instead of one for each level of indentation in an XML file?
Well noticed, see also my previous comment. So my test is not successful.
but I don't really understand the code style changes introduced by this PR.
Sorry, I had not set the Joomla code style in my IDE. I've fixed the code style issue. Thanks @richard67 @sandewt !
I have tested this item :white_check_mark: successfully on 99f4eb6e83f2f351a6bec4e2f7079dd7c93830b2
This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/37732.
my2cent: The system panel is a pain and needs improvements. Best would be individual settings as in quickicons panel, wherw users can hide or show blocs and can change colours or use icons and maybe can change ordering of submenus for better UX.
But the proposed solution here in the default panel is not what is inteded for J4 backend.
