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Hello again,

Thought I'd drop another friendly tip in the suggestion box.

I'm working on mapping field types to different reference types at the moment and I'm finding it supremely difficult to determine which fields are relevant for all the lesser-standard reference types (eg. legal_case).

Would it at all be possible to create a bullet list in the documentation in the form of...

reference_type

Field	Description
field_one	Used for xxx

book

Field	Description
title	The title of the book

I understand there are likely cases where certain citation styles use fields that others don't, but I think it would still be helpful to see.

In the Types section of the documentation, it does do this somewhat (by providing some examples in parentheses), but I think a master list would be very very handy.

Thanks for all your hard work! 👍

Edit: If this already exists somewhere and I missed it, I apologize for my oversight!

Disregard -- I found this like 2 minutes after submitting this issue.

Perhaps link to this in the docs?

I came across this one from Mendeley as well, but it seems to be inaccurate for a majority of the types.

Just one example of this being the following

* TYPE: TelevisionBroadcast -> broadcast
   Abstract -> abstract
   Chapter -> chapter-number
   DOI -> DOI
   Date Accessed -> accessed
   Distributor -> publisher
   Edition -> edition
   Genre -> genre
   ISBN -> ISBN
   ISSN -> ISSN
   Issue -> issue
   Pages -> page
   Publication -> container-title
   Revision Number -> number
   Sections -> section
   Short Title -> shortTitle
   Title -> title
   Volume -> volume

but there are several others like it.

@dsifford, hi again!

CSL just kinda evolved without ever prescribing which fields go with which item types, although it's certainly on our minds. We probably should at least give some guidance.

See https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/issues/2003#issuecomment-206067072 for some recent discussion on the same topic. We link to the Zotero and Mendeley mappings at http://citationstyles.org/developers/#Mappings (the links point to different sites, and you might have better luck with them; the Zotero one has a nicer website, and the Mendeley one might be more up to date than the wiki).

And can you tell us what you're building? We're habitually curious here about what people do with CSL, and we might be able to give you a few pointers.

@rmzelle No problem! I'm just happy this project exists! I can't even imagine the time that went into this.. So, kudos to you all for being rockstars!

I'm working on this. It's a WordPress plugin (yuck! wordpress!) that I think will make people's lives easier for writing scientific blog posts (namely, my own!). I say yuck because I don't get along with PHP (no disrespect if you're a PHP fan!). That's why you'll see the majority of the project is in typescript.

Also, disregard the extremely outdated readme! That's from when I tried (and failed miserably) to parse a few reference types by hand.

Here's a screencast of how it looked a few days ago, but it's changed a bunch since then.

I'd be very happy to take whatever pointers you have to give me! I humbly bow to your team's prowess when it comes to all things CSL! 😄

Cool!

You're already aware of the other WordPress plugins that integrate with CSL in some way? Not sure if they would be of any help, but anyway, here they are:

BibSonomy/PUMA CSL KCite Mendeley Plugin Zotpress (links at http://citationstyles.org/ )

Oh, and let us know when your CSL-version is released, so we can add a link to https://wordpress.org/plugins/academic-bloggers-toolkit/ to the CSL homepage.

@rmzelle Sweet! Will do.

I'm aware of the others. This is different in that it's completely stateless. No shortcodes are used, and nothing is stored in the database.. Everything turns into raw, beautiful HTML..

That way if someone want's to get rid of my plugin, they can without any issues. In the other cases, all the posts with citations would break, which is less-than-ideal IMHO.

The CSL release is on track to be done by the end of this weekend. I'll keep you posted 👍

Another thing that might be of interest is http://labs.crossref.org/citation-formatting-service/ and http://crosscite.org/citeproc/.

(I also warmly recommend posting something to https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel, which is the official CSL mailing list)

Haha I wish I would have reached out to you sooner! I racked my brain on how to handle DOIs for a couple days and then randomly by luck stumbled on the crossref labs stuff.

I ended up going a slightly different route than direct formatting from crossref because my app handles the presentation of the citations a smidge differently (and also because I ideally wanted all citations to flow through the same pipeline).

I ended up going with requesting meta from crossref in vnd.citationstyles.csl+json format and parsing through citeproc.

Thanks for the listserv info! I'll look into posting there once I get the documentation completed 👍

Also, thanks again for all your suggestions! You've been more than helpful (and very kind!).

You're welcome! Since the core CSL team doesn't really include any (professional) programmers (we're mostly fanatic Zotero users), we're always impressed what developers cook up with the resources we make available.

the core CSL team doesn't really include any (professional) programmers

Ohh puhlease! Show me a team of amateurs that are able to put together something half the size of this project and then maybe I'll believe that one! 😄

Am being quite serious, though. We're getting some help from developers, but mostly it's the result of tinkering by amateurs. E.g. I work as a scientist in biotechnology, Sebastian Karcher is a political scientist, Frank Bennett (of citeproc-js fame) is an associate professor in the field of law, and Bruce D'Arcus is an associate professor of geography.

Well that's super impressive. You all have done spectacular work with this!

@rmzelle The CSL version of the plugin has been released and in the wild for a few days now. Here's the demo video I put together for it.

Any feedback you or anyone else might have is warmly welcomed. 👍

Great! I added a link to your WordPress plugin page at http://citationstyles.org/ and sent a tweet (https://twitter.com/csl_styles/status/725388552238948352).

Awesome. Thanks 😄

Nice! I posted a couple of comments and questions on the youtube page.

@bdarcus I posted a reply in the youtube comments. I don't check there very often so feel free to open an issue on the subject in the ABT repo. 👍

Hey @rmzelle - How can I get in touch with the citeproc.js devs? I posted an issue perhaps a week or so ago with no response and I've come across an even larger issue that I was hoping to get ironed out quick (related to locale parsing).

Thanks for the help! (didn't know where else to reach you besides this issue. Hope you don't mind!)

Here's the relevant issue: https://github.com/Juris-M/citeproc-js/issues/4

Scratch my last, I've gotten in touch! 😄

There is one citeproc.js dev at the moment, he's just been tied up. Sorry for the delay in responding to your earlier message. I've answered on the fresh issue. Feel free to post to the issue tracker as further issues come up. If you have trouble getting through, you can also write to me direct on biercenator at-in-a-circle-thing gmail.com.

@fbennett Thanks so much for the help and contact info!

Kudos again to you all for the work that everybody put into this project.

Also..

biercenator at-in-a-circle-thing gmail.com.

too funny! 😂

@rmzelle

Hello again.

I'm back to being interested in this again. Specifically, for types article and entry-generic. What are the minimum requirements for those two?

Both Zotero and Mendeley do not have those specified. Does anybody use these?

Also, if you can point me in the direction to where I can find this information, I'd be happy to write up a document for others to be able to reference. I feel like this information is really important.

Mendeley specifies these fields for article, which I think isn't correct. They probably just threw all those fields at that type because they had no idea where to find the requirements.

Edit: I say this because, by having ISSN and ISBN, to me, that would indicate it's at least a book or periodical.

types article and entry-generic. What are the minimum requirements for those two?

Where did you find "entry-generic"? That's not a CSL item type, is it?

For "article", it's mostly a remnant from the early days of CSL, when there was a thing called item type fallback. E.g. a conditional for <if type="book"/> would test positive for "report" (then a subtype of "book"), and "article" was the superset of "article-magazine", "article-newspaper", and "article-journal" (that's probably also the reason why "article-journal" isn't called "journal-article"). I can't find the table of former fallbacks right now (and can't even remember if there ever was one), but the 'feature' was removed in CSL 1.0. E.g. Zotero never had items matching up with some of these superset types like "article". (@bdarcus, correct me if I got any of this wrong)

That's right. But I still think there may be value in what in essence is a generic article type.

I can't find the table of former fallbacks right now (and can't even remember if there ever was one)

@rmzelle : https://www.zotero.org/support/dev/citation_styles/csl_0.8.1_syntax (at the very bottom of the page) (also: https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/41908/#Comment_41908 ) –– Edit: Let's put the list here, for the record:

You must test a specific type before its generic fallback. For instance, as “book” is the fallback for “film”, you need to test for “film” before testing for “book” if you want it to work correctly.

“book” is a generic fallback for book, film, artwork, report, bill, case, hearing, statute, audioRecording, videoRecording and computerProgram.

“article” is a generic fallback for journalArticle, magazineArticle, newspaperArticle, thesis, letter, manuscript, interview, webpage, patent, email, map, blogPost, instantMessage, forumPost, tvBroadcast, radiobroadcast, podcast and presentation.

“chapter” is a generic fallback for bookSection, encyclopediaArticle, dictionaryEntry, conferencePaper.

Wonder if maybe we should have a common table, maybe on our github wiki?

I'm not volunteering to do it; just sayin'

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 9:42 AM, gracile-fr [email protected] wrote:

I can't find the table of former fallbacks right now (and can't even remember if there ever was one)

@rmzelle https://github.com/rmzelle : https://www.zotero.org/ support/dev/citation_styles/csl_0.8.1_syntax (at the very bottom of the page)

(also: https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/41908/#Comment_41908 )

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