kerkerkruip
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i7
Wiki
Just wanted to let you know that I've made an admittedly small first stab at a wiki for the game. (See the wiki button on github.)
"Monsters" has struck me as a weird term for a while. Do you want to keep it, or could we change to "enemies" or "rogues"? (a la the rogue gallery)
I don't think it's very useful to sort the levelless into level 0 and level 10. They have no consistent strength, and the nameless horror being level 10 isn't really significant. Can we just classify them all as Levelless or no level?
Before putting a lot of work in, though, we need to decide whether we want to use the github wiki. It doens't look very good, and there's no sidebar as there is in MediaWiki wikis (like Wikipedia). If we prefer to use Mediawiki, I can probably host it.
In fact, I don't even see a search function? That would be bad.
I've also thought of using a wordpress wiki, there are a few available, which would mean we could use just one software for the wiki and eventual website. (Not that we have to use wordpress, but I have been very happy with it for the SPAG website.)
If you like Wordpress, let's use Wordpress. Do you have an example of a Wordpress wiki?
I like the layout and the approach to the wiki. Wish it could be largely autogenerated from the code--that way we wouldn't have to keep up with tweaks to monster stats etc.!
I should say that my use of Rogues Gallery was based on a little bit of wordplay. It's both a gallery of rogues in the classic sense (a battery of bad guys), but it's also the gallery of the conquests of a rogue, i.e. the player character.
I think that most roguelike players think of the rogue as the PC, e.g. the game 100 Rogues, whose title is about the disposability of your rogues. But that doesn't mean that we can't call our enemies rogues!
These are potential wordpress options: http://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-wiki-plugin/ http://wordpress.org/plugins/pencil-wiki/ http://wordpress.org/plugins/encyclopedia/
I like the first one the most. The free version doesn't normally let you set it so anyone can edit the pages, but I might be able to hack around that. Or it is only $19.
It looks like even the pro version is GPL... how does that work? Couldn't anyone then share it?
Well it looks like people are already doing that: https://github.com/search?o=desc&p=1&q=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium.wpmudev.org%2Fproject%2Fwiki&s=indexed&type=Code No need to hack it or pay! Yay for GPL!
https://github.com/browngd/bitcrunched has the latest version of the wiki. I'm trying it out now...
You can give it a test here: http://test.spagmag.org/wiki/kerkerkruip-enemies/
~~It's not as good as I was hoping. I'll keep looking!~~
I think this one actually could do. The only problem is that the very front page lists all the pages in the order they are created: http://test.spagmag.org/wiki/ Instead we would want to show a list of the categories of the wiki. I should be able to do that. The front page just wouldn't be editable.
https://github.com/mgerring/WordPress-Wiki is another option. I'll give it a test, but not tonight.
The more I look into these plugins the less happy I am with our plan to use Wordpress. Wordpress itself is great, but all of the wiki plugins are substandard. It would be possible to install a wiki in parallel, but then we might as well just stick with the Github wiki.
Instead of trying to turn a blog into a wiki, I think I'd now recommend doing the reverse and use a wiki as a blog. I have used DokuWiki before and been very impressed. It has many plugins including a suite for a blog. You can try it out in their demo (which looks terrible as all publicly accessible demos do) http://desbest.uk.to/clients/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=blog or you can see a real blog using the software: http://blog.andreas-haerter.com/
I think we want the website to have: A couple of pages for about/info, screenshots/lets play videos, downloads A blog for updates A wiki for help and strategies etc
If we go with Dokuwiki I am quite confident that it will be more than adequate for all of these functions.
Thoughts?
I'll take a look at DokuWiki. I did see that there is a commercial (but cheap) wiki plugin for Wordpress -- did you check that out? (Maybe on a site that uses it.)
Hm, that Andreas Härter website is quite ugly. I don't know how easy it would be to customise this; but a great benefit of Wordpress is that you can very easily install one of thousands of nice-looking themes.
http://premium.wpmudev.org/project/wordpress-wiki/ If that's the commercial one you're referring to, then it's what I tested. The specific problem is that it would be hard to organise. For example we would want to list all the enemies by their level, rather than having them in one list alphabetically ordered.
Hahah, I thought Andreas Härter was reasonably attractive! Each to their own. There are many other DokuWiki themes, though admittedly not as many as for Wordpress. Here are some others: http://www.zonix.de/blog http://www.foosel.org/ http://www.dkriesel.com/ http://www.splitbrain.org/
Here's the official list. We'll be able to customise templates too. https://www.dokuwiki.org/template?pluginsort=^d#extension__table
Here are a few official wikis for games: (I searched for "official wiki", I'm sure there are many more.) http://wiki.openttd.org/Main_Page http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Main_Page http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Main_Page https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Main_Page
All of them use MediaWiki, but that doesn't mean we have to. I think I still lean towards DokuWiki.
The Team Fortress wiki has a layout we could consider: Having an index of categories on one side and a list of recent updates/blog posts. Considering we will have blog posts for every update we could just have the list of recent posts. I think I'd prefer to include the text of the post on the page, or at least the beginning of it.
The EVE wiki shows there's options for making it look visually different from a stock MediaWiki install. I also like how restrained it is, rather than having every possible category like Guild Wars.
Just an idea to toss out: Depending on the ease of exercising control over styling that the wiki software provides, we could give the basic stats for our rogues in the sidebar of the monster card image (example). I've left it as empty as possible to allow for flexibility.
There are extensions for making blogs with MediaWiki too. It won't really matter too much what we choose. Victor, the choice is yours!
Erik, yeah that's a good idea. I was thinking we could even include the images in the rogues menu pages, though not with the stats over the top of course.
The wiki is ready: http://kerkerkruip.wikia.com/wiki/Kerkerkeruip_Wiki
If you make an account and reply here I can make you an administrator.
RemkovanderPluijm
2014-02-09 11:39 GMT+01:00 VictorGijsbers [email protected]:
I'm VictorGijsbers.
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/i7/kerkerkruip/issues/84#issuecomment-34570586 .
Met vriendelijke groet,
Remko van der Pluijm LinkedIn: http://nl.linkedin.com/in/rvanderpluijm
Erik Temple.
The site is kind of weird in that it leaves space on every page for video and images. Video will pretty much never be important for Kerkerkruip (right?), and images would be a stretch for most articles. Is there a way for editors to remove these boxes for a page until we actually want that content?
You should be able to delete the boxes. I'll see if I can edit the default page template so that it only prompts for images. Or should we remove that too? Basically only the rogues will have one...
I was just going to check out the themes - because there must be something that it less horrendous than the default look - but if you're going to play around with templates maybe I had better wait?
I meant a content template for new pages - go ahead and edit the themes!
What do we think the goals of the wiki should be? One thing we discussed, but did not firmly decide on, was that the wiki could be the primary documentation for the game, so that the game would only include the most basic instructions with a recommendation to check out the wiki for more. What do you think?
I think it would be better to allow all players to update it, which would mean giving up a lot of control that you might want for the primary documentation. But recommending that players check out the wiki would probably be good.
Maybe we should open a new issue for further wiki discussions now that it has been set up...
I had an idea that it would be good to distinguish on the wiki between basic and advanced content. For most things it would be good to have an info box, and we could mark it there. So two questions: is there more basic or more advanced content? We should mark the smaller group I think. Any ideas for a symbol for either of those? We could perhaps have a symbol overlaying the graphic (or just in the top of the table for those without an image) or a ribbon on the top right. Or we could use text in a ribbon.
I've been feeling a little out of my depth on the wiki. Feel free to implement this, but I don't think I have anything useful to add on the subject... :)