Fixed Italian translation

[Bruno3589]

Hi everyone, first of all thank you for the excellent work on the Enhanced Edition. I found it in search for a fix to the looping audio on multicore systems, been using it since then.

Now, the reason I'm writing this: I'm Italian and while I find the official translation good enough, there were some small but annoying mistakes. So I read the issue about custom translations (#111) and made a "fixed" version in my spare time. Here it is (just unpack the archive in the sh2e\etc\message folder): sh2-ita-fixed.zip

Most of the fixes are in the menus (save names, item descriptions, etc), but I also fixed some subtitles and a few notes.

I tested it myself in a recent playthrough and found no particular issues, but if there are other Italians around, please try it and give me a feedback.

If you need more clarifications please feel free to ask!

Some example screenshots:

Saves Menu

Before

After

Item descriptions

Before

After

Item picking

Before

After

[Polymega]

Hi @Bruno3589 ,

So I read the issue about custom translations (#111) and made a "fixed" version in my spare time.

That's great! Thanks for doing this. Mostly because...

while I find the official translation good enough, there were some small but annoying mistakes.

... this is something I've consistently heard from many non-English fans of the game. So I'm glad the Italian version can also be cleaned up, now. I'm hoping, in the future, a French and German fan can do the same for their respective languages, as well.

I did some quick tests with your adjustments to ensure everything is working well. One thing I've noticed:

Can you shorten the description at the bottom? It gets too close to the edge of the border.

Also, to be sure, if you adjusted any memos in the game, you would need to do so at the location of the memo (such as stage_apart_e2f_msg_i.mes), and also in memo_msg_i.mes and memo_x_msg_i.mes.

I will fix the Born From a Wish warning message alignment for you.

If you can shorten that description, and check one more time that all your edits are good, please let me know and I'll include your improvements into the next public release for the project. I'll include your name in the Special Thanks section of the Credits page when we update the website next time.

Thank you again!

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega, thanks for the quick review.

Can you shorten the description at the bottom? It gets too close to the edge of the border.

I can easily fix/shorten the description at the bottom, while I'm at it I see some other strings I can correct in this menu.

I'm also aware of the three locations for the notes. The few notes I fixed should already be the same in all of the files.

I will upload an updated version as soon as I can (maybe even tomorrow!)

[Badore90]

Hi @Polymega, thanks for the quick review.

Can you shorten the description at the bottom? It gets too close to the edge of the border.

I can easily fix/shorten the description at the bottom, while I'm at it I see some other strings I can correct in this menu. I'm also aware of the three locations for the notes. The few notes I fixed should already be the same in all of the files. I will upload an updated version as soon as I can (maybe even tomorrow!)

I think just: "Opzioni di gioco supplementari" or "Visualizza opzioni supplementari" is good.

(Finalmente un connazionale :D ...Appena avrò tempo darò un'occhio alle tue correzioni. Fai attenzione cmq a ciò che cambi, controlla sempre la versione inglese prima. A volte in SH2 ci sono frasi strane che sembrano errori, ma non è detto che lo siano).

P.S. "Ho preso un carillon "Sirenetta" mi sembra più fedele all'originale. (La traduzione letterale sarebbe: Ho preso un carillon della "Sirenetta" ma sarebbe troppo lungo). Volendo si potrebbero aggiungere i due punti: "Ho preso un carillon: "Sirenetta", ma secondo me è brutto e non ce n'è bisogno. I due punti sono praticamente sottintesi.

[Bruno3589]

Hi, first of all Merry Christmas to everybody!

Here's the updated translation: sh2-ita-fix-1.1.zip

I fixed the menu and also the carillon descriptions as reported by @Badore90

PS Grazie a te, mi fa piacere che sia utile :) fammi sapere se ho fatto un buon lavoro. Ad ogni modo per tutte le traduzioni controllo sempre anche la versione inglese, la frase di partenza mi aiuta a capire meglio se la traduzione è adeguata. E si, anche io alcune frasi le trovo strane, ma non per questo sono sbagliate :P

[IlDucci]

If you allow me a quick non-Italian suggestion, you should change the "Config. Tasti" line. Doesn't seem like you need to abbreviate over there. Know when to abbreviate and when to don't.

while I find the official translation good enough, there were some small but annoying mistakes.

... this is something I've consistently heard from many non-English fans of the game. So I'm glad the Italian version can also be cleaned up, now. I'm hoping, in the future, a French and German fan can do the same for their respective languages, as well.

Well, in the case of Spanish, I kinda have the feeling the official translation was rushed, like a first draft. If the translation was bad, stuff like all the poem/rhymed Notes would be left unrhymed in Spanish, but they were indeed rhymed properly (My only complaint there was that in Dead Men the translator didn't translate the last two verses, copypasting the first ones instead).

Konami's translations were known to be just close (but no cigar) to being good at the 2000's (MGS2's official Spanish translation had the first hour of game, the Tanker chapter, with very visible typos, but overall, the translation was good, if lacking in context, as some translations looked like someone just risked one context and turned out to be another). In my opinion, they were bad in the 90's (Made In London, except MGS, which got spared in Spain), half-decent in the 2000's, and went good the late 2000's-2010s (MGS4 was top notch).

[Bruno3589]

Hello everybody. I took some time to review all the strings in the options menu and fixed other minor issues as well: sh2-ita-fix-1.2.zip

If you allow me a quick non-Italian suggestion, you should change the "Config. Tasti" line. Doesn't seem like you need to abbreviate over there. Know when to abbreviate and when to don't.

Actually that was from the original translation. You're right though, it doesn't need an abbreviation, so I fixed that too.

There is an issue left in the Game Options menu but I don't know how to fix it:

It seems like a simple positioning issue, however the arrows are also misaligned so I don't think it can be fixed in the strings file.

[Badore90]

I fixed the menu and also the carillon descriptions as reported by @Badore90 PS Grazie a te, mi fa piacere che sia utile :) fammi sapere se ho fatto un buon lavoro. Ad ogni modo per tutte le traduzioni controllo sempre anche la versione inglese, la frase di partenza mi aiuta a capire meglio se la traduzione è adeguata. E si, anche io alcune frasi le trovo strane, ma non per questo sono sbagliate :P

Ottimo, grazie. Si esatto, anche nella versione inglese ad esempio ci sono apparenti errori di punteggiatura che in realtà sono voluti (danno un senso diverso alla frase).

Gli altri screens che hai postato mi sembrano perfetti (a parte che Io avrei messo "Testa di ...Piramide" … scherzo ^^ una versione parodica/dialettale di SH2 sarebbe divertente [io lo feci con FF7] , ma non è assolutamente questa la sede. Qui "pignoleria" è la parola d'ordine, giustamente.)

[Polymega]

Thanks, Bruno!

There is an issue left in the Game Options menu but I don't know how to fix it: [...] It seems like a simple positioning issue, however the arrows are also misaligned so I don't think it can be fixed in the strings file.

This will be fixed in the next public release for the project, so you don't have to worry about it on your end.

---

On another thread, we have been trying to troubleshoot a display glitch for the save folder screen. What we've determined is two things:

1. The "delete with backspace" line must be short in length.
2. The tab text must be eleven characters or less.

So for m_card(_x)_i.mes I recommend changing the following:

• Change "Per eliminare premi il tasto Backspace." to "Elimina con Backspace."
• Change "Lista Salvataggi" to "Cartella"

... is "Elimina con Backspace" an acceptable substitute?

We have to shorten both of these strings, otherwise the text on the tab (at the top) will either become "sliced off" as a user is scrolling through the save file selections, or will flicker as the user scrolls.

---

Lastly, if possible, I would try and shorten some of the save names so they do not overlap the date/time display:

When you're on the save/load screen, you can press left and right to cycle through the time display options.

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega , thanks for the feedback, I addressed all the issues you reported:

• "Delete with Backspace" length - Yes, "Elimina con Backspace" is actually ok :)
• The tab name length - I saw the text flickering, but didn't know what caused it
• The save names length - I honestly didn't know you could toggle full date/time view!

Here's the updated translation: sh2-ita-fix-1.3.zip

I also came across another strange bug/glitch, but it's not related to the translation, so I'll open a new issue for that.

[IlDucci]

Actually that was from the original translation. You're right though, it doesn't need an abbreviation, so I fixed that too.

Welp, that also happened in official Spanish. I have the feeling that Konami's order for the Options menu was "KEEP IT VERY LITERAL", so much that it just required a carpet bombing to clean it up.

[Polymega]

Perfect! Thanks again, Bruno. I made some small adjustments to the mem_card files and fixed the Born From a Wish spoiler warning position. Here are those adjusted files, for your records:

m_card_x_msg_i.zip

Thanks again for all your help with this! I know other Italian fans will also be grateful for your time and help here. :)

[Bruno3589]

Thanks @Polymega , I do hope it's useful for others as well!

BTW, if someone (@Badore90 for example :P) finds other mistakes I accidentally left behind, please tell me and I'll update the translation.

[Badore90]

Thanks @Polymega , I do hope it's useful for others as well! BTW, if someone (@Badore90 for example :P) finds other mistakes I accidentally left behind, please tell me and I'll update the translation.

@Bruno3589 Sorry I didn't find much time for testing. I played a little today and found some minor things I want to talk about to you. I think it'd be better/quicker to talk on WhatsApp, then if we decide to do some change we'll report it here. If you agree send me your number here: [email protected]

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Badore90 , I just sent you an e-mail :)

Don't worry about testing, I also have limited time to play since I have a full time job during the week. Just do what you can/want!

BTW I'm also doing another playthrough to test the translation. I used the old converter for most of the translation work, so there is a very high chance I missed something! Luckily the new tool makes it easier to compare and make changes.

There is also something to correct in the new graphical main menu, but I don't have the necessary skills:

• The sub-scenario text should be changed from "Campagna Laterale: NATO DA UN DESIDERIO" to "Campagna secondaria: NATA DA UN DESIDERIO";
• The riddle text should be changed from "LIVELLO DI PUZZLE" to "LIVELLO ENIGMI" to reflect the correction I made in the Load/Save screen.

@Polymega I believe you addressed this for Spanish (issue #111 ), if you're willing to do it for Italian too that would be awesome :)

Lastly, there's another thing I didn't think about before: I can also make an italian translation for the website. It's not urgent since most people interested in this project already know english, still I think it would be a nice addition :)

[Badore90]

The sub-scenario text should be changed from "Campagna Laterale: NATO DA UN DESIDERIO" to "Campagna secondaria: NATA DA UN DESIDERIO"; The riddle text should be changed from "LIVELLO DI PUZZLE" to "LIVELLO ENIGMI" to reflect the correction I made in the Load/Save screen.

This is exactly what I wanted to talk about :)

[Polymega]

Some tips for future translation editing:

• If possible, use the *_i.mes files from the latest Enhanced Edition Essential Files package as the base for your future edits.
  • Mostly because m_card_msg_*.mes and m_card_x_msg_*.mes were adjusted quite a bit for this release.
• If you're comfortable with it, you may want to try and use IlDucci and Infrid's new SH2 .mes editor tool called SH2MSGConvert.
  • It's a lot more robust than the old SH Resource Editor tool, after you get used to working with it.
• And as always: Play test all your changes!! Make sure any edits you make do not break anything in-game!

[Bruno3589]

* If possible, use the `*_i.mes` files from the latest [Enhanced Edition Essential Files](http://enhanced.townofsilenthill.com/SH2/install.htm#installEssentialFiles) package as the base for your future edits.
  
  * Mostly because `m_card_msg_*.mes` and `m_card_x_msg_*.mes` were adjusted quite a bit for this release.

Already thought about that, but thanks for the remainder.

* If you're comfortable with it, you may want to try and use IlDucci and Infrid's new SH2 .mes editor tool called [SH2MSGConvert](https://gitlab.com/sh2msgconvert/sh2msgconvert).
  

I started using it for the last few edits, I must admit it's much more practical to use!

* And as always: **Play test all your changes!!** Make sure any edits you make do not break anything in-game!

Sure thing! I'm an IT technician, I would lose my job without testing 😆

[Polymega]

An Italian fan discovered, on Normal Riddle, the code has been removed from the carbon paper riddle:

[Polymega]

Here is a fixed .mes file for it. Please add this to your records for future editing: stage_hospital_2f_f_msg_i.zip

Edit: I made a Twitter post on it: https://twitter.com/WhereAllBegins/status/1229177710456528896

[Bruno3589]

Weird, I don't remember changing this... Maybe it got corrupt when I saved it with the old Resource Editor.

Another reason to use the new converter I guess. Thanks for the finding!

[Bruno3589]

Also, sorry for the mishap. It was clearly not intentional 😅

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega, so me and @Badore90 talked on WhatsApp and agreed on some changes on the graphical main menu, would you mind to do the edit like you did with Spanish? These are the changes:

• For scenario selection, the two should be as follow: Scenario principale: LETTERA DAL PARADISO SILENZIOSO Scenario secondario: NATA DA UN DESIDERIO (if the first one is too long, "principale" can be omitted)
• For difficuly levels, change LIVELLO DI PUZZLE to LIVELLO ENIGMI

If I could, I'd make the changes myself, but I really lack the skills.

[Polymega]

Also, sorry for the mishap. It was clearly not intentional 😅

No worries, friend. Everyone makes mistakes; we're all human! I know I've overlooked something or another for a past release as well. :)

would you mind to do the edit like you did with Spanish? These are the changes:

Sure, I'd be happy to. I'll have something for you in the next several hours and respond back.

[Bruno3589]

Thank you very much! In the meantime we'll keep testing/reviewing the translation.

[Polymega]

@Bruno3589 Here is a revised start01.tex (main menu choices): start01i.zip

I'll include this as part of the next update to the "Essential Files" download package as well.

[Bruno3589]

Awesome! I will try this after work. Thanks again!

[Badore90]

@Polymega @Bruno3589 and I are working hard in order to make a definitive/more faithful italian translation. We found that there were still a lot of errors on the official translation.

We corrected many grammatical and writing mistakes/naivety, sentences that changed the original meaning, we even found that some entire phrases were missing. We're obviously comparing stage files, memo, memox, item and itemx page per page making sure that everything match, we're almost to start the testing.

Now, not being native English speakers, we need your help to be sure to adjust (if there's need) this one sentence correctly (since it could be not possible to rightly translate it in italian without knowing the original meaning).

It's the final part of this:

"He who is not bold enough to be stared at from across the abyss is not bold enough to stare into it himself."

The official italian translation sounds like this:

"He who does not have the courage to to be looked at from beyond the abyss does not have the courage to look within himself"

At first it seemed wrong to to me and I changed the last part more or less so (note: the text in brackets are my considerations, they are not part of the translation): "does not have the courage to look inside it (meaning inside the abyss)"

But then it comes to mind another possible meaning of the original. Like: "does not have the courage to look inside it (the abyss) himself (that means, the courage to look at himself/his image/his person inside the abyss. such as seeing his reflection in the abyss).

Which of these 3 should be the correct meaning??

[IlDucci]

Spanish fantranslator (and rewriter of the official translator) here. I think this is a take on Nietzche's quote:

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

The abyss, in this case, being James' burden and self-denial of Mary's death. So, in order to stare at his abyss, he has to be prepared to be stared back. I have the feeling that the official Italian translation tried to make it more obvious for the player, and that's why it says that he should look upon himself. The thing about the abyss isn't just to make it mysterious, but more cautionary, kinda like the second message at Neely's Bar.

But this is my opinion, I'm sure polymega can provide a much insightful explanation.

EDIT: Take a look at this topic: http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=611901

[Badore90]

Spanish fantranslator (and rewriter of the official translator) here. I think this is a take on Nietzche's quote:

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

The abyss, in this case, being James' burden and self-denial of Mary's death. So, in order to stare at his abyss, he has to be prepared to be stared back. I have the feeling that the official Italian translation tried to make it more obvious for the player, and that's why it says that he should look upon himself. The thing about the abyss isn't just to make it mysterious, but more cautionary, kinda like the second message at Neely's Bar. But this is my opinion, I'm sure polymega can provide a much insightful explanation. EDIT: Take a look at this topic: http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=611901

Thank you very much for your answer, it is really helpful. I'll read the link later.

I firstly thought to translate this way: "non ha il coraggio di guardarci (nell'abisso) dentro se stesso" but it's really a shitty way to write. There's a good way to formulate the sentence in a better way, but it'd need to completely re-do the phrase in a different way and i don't know if it's a good choice.

Maybe it's better to leave it as it is (official italian translation). You changed it for spanish??

[IlDucci]

Nope, the official Spanish translation and the current replacements that are on the Enhanced Edition (I did two versions, one more neutral and one adapted to Castilian Spanish) kept this line intact. Here's the official Spanish translation:

Quien no tenga el valor suficiente para dejar que lo observen desde el abismo no tendrá el valor suficiente para encararse a él.

A literal translation would say this: "Whoever doesn't have enough courage to let itself be watched from the abyss will not have enough courage to face it." (Repeating abyss would be redundant in Spanish).