codemaid
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codecadwallader
I find the name Code Maid offensive and sexist.
the name is falling into the stereotype that cleaning is for women. That is not true, and we should stop promoting it. As much as I like the plugin! The name seems inappropriate.
I'm strongly against enforcing political correctness in all possible areas of our life. Usage of a job name historically done mostly by a woman doesn't in any way "fall into stereotype, that cleaning is for women". Suggesting, that naming of a very specific development tool is a part of sexist scheme is simply absurd. Voting to close.
I'm strongly against enforcing political correctness in all possible areas of our life. Usage of a job name historically done mostly by a woman doesn't in any way "fall into stereotype, that cleaning is for women". Suggesting, that naming of a very specific development tool is a part of sexist scheme is simply absurd. Voting to close.
I do not suggest that the naming of this tool is part of a sexist scheme. However, the fact that the job of a maid is traditionally done by women, is due to oppression of women, especially in the past, but until the present day. I think we should strive to achieve equality, and this means acknowledging the flaws of the past and move ahead towards a brighter future. The very concept of a "maid" is absurd. your reply saddens me.
Your argument would make sense if we discussed wording like "slave" or "forced labor" (and such words are still being used in IT, like master-slave relation of devices and surprisingly no one protests). Maid is merely a name of a job and though there might have been maids, which were forced to perform this job, there are equally or even more maids, which did and still do this job by their conscious decision. And frankly, attempting to treat this word as offensive would be actually offensive to those women, which I suppose, you did not considered.
If your argumentation was valid, we should also avoid using names like "miners" or "diggers" merely because in WW2 people were forced to work this way for nazis and thus we can harm their feelings.
There are far more offensive words than "maid" and I strongly oppose pushing border of definition of offensiveness to the level of absurdity, because at some point we won't be able to use literally any word without it being offensive to someone.
Still voting to close.
Your argument would make sense if we discussed wording like "slave" or "forced labor" (and such words are still being used in IT, like master-slave relation of devices and surprisingly no one protests). Maid is merely a name of a job and though there might have been maids, which were forced to perform this job, there are equally or even more maids, which did and still do this job by their conscious decision. And frankly, attempting to treat this word as offensive would be actually offensive to those women, which I suppose, you did not considered.
Point is that women are often forced into being maids due to lack of equality. It only appears voluntary, but it isn't.
If your argumentation was valid, we should also avoid using names like "miners" or "diggers" merely because in WW2 people were forced to work this way for nazis and thus we can harm their feelings.
No, those terms are fine, as they have not been created to distinguish between slaves and non-slaves, but that is pretty obvious I find. A better comparison is the N* word, that is racist by nature, also pretty obvious.
There are far more offensive words than "maid" and I strongly oppose pushing border of definition of offensiveness to the level of absurdity, because at some point we won't be able to use literally any word without it being offensive to someone.
Of course there are more offensive words, but it is offensive enough. This level is not absurd, what's absurd is that we name a program, created in the here and now, not 50 years ago, after a sexist job description. check out this link, it explains it pretty well: https://cottagecare.com/maids-no-way/
I want to mention that I don't think anyone named this app this way to insult anybody, I merely wanted to point out that the choice of name is unfortunate and in fact sexist.
Thanks for reporting the issue. I appreciate that you recognize it was never my intention to insult anyone.
I think it is important to recognize when people raise a red flag.
By way of example, I live in South Africa and I bought pavers from a company called Colonial Stone Company. The last time I could not find them on the internet anymore, so I phoned them and they confirmed to me that they ended up changing their name as some people find colonial offensive especially in the African context where colonial powers of the past disenfranchised people from their land and mineral wealth. So this entrepreneur obviously never had any ill intent from the start but he also recognized that you always run the risk of offending someone in picking a name so he ended up changing his name , website , invoices , letterheads , company logo's etc.
The normal reaction from implicated people / organizations is this was never their intent , how can you think this of me, Don't politicize our name etc. The average reaction is one of defensiveness.
The important question is what did you do when you became aware that someone raised a red flag.
Did you defend your original decision or do you realize that you always run the risk in offending someone when you pick a name and on this realization as it was never your intent to offend someone you change the name to something that will be less offensive in general. The point is not that you have to agree with the person raising the flag, it's that you realize there is a probability (even if it's small) that some people might find it offensive.
I think open source projects that serves the "people of the world" carries an extra fiduciary duty to make sure that the names it picks are the least offensive in general.
So the question is what did you do when you became aware of the situation.
For me personally this would be an easy answer, I vote for a name change to CodeMagic or anything the community find least offensive.
@Pinox, I also think, that this is important, to use logic and reasoning, when people raise a red flag, because - especially lately, in the past couple of years, people are raising red flags continuously.
You see, I live in Poland. And if you look at the history of Poland, you should recognize, that our nation lived through enough to be able to be offended by literally lots of things. Namely, if we wanted, we could be offended every single time, when mentioned in a single sentence or compared to Germans or Russians. Yes, I believe, we could.
But we don't.
And the reason is that every time such thing happens, we use our brains and try to find out, if someone, who used some specific sentence, really had something bad in mind. And you know what? In vast majority of situations this simply is not the case.
Moreover, even though this is a historical event, I personally was harmed by no German and no Russian and I see no reason for keeping the hatred through generations. Because it is simply pointless. Did anyone that might be called "collonial" hurt you? Not someone, that you know or someone in general, but you? Because if not, then wat are you dragging this hatred along for? Food for thought.
Nowadays it is not important to notice, that someone solely raised a red flag. It is important to notice if someone raised a red flag for a sane reason. Since author of the application mentioned explicitly, that he chose his name without anything wrong in mind, this is a case closed for me. And especially that you and OP - seem to be the only ones, who cares, even though you weren't offended yourselves (or at least you didn't mentioned that). And at the time of posting this message, 14 people disliked the original post and 3 more liked mine. This is a vote from community, that people - especially after what author of extension wrote - simply do not find the name offensive.
You see, if you really think, that one should react to every single person claiming to be offended, I could as well say, that I'm offended by OP's displayed name, because it reminds me of Heinlich Himmler, who - as you might know - contributed to great suffering of my whole nation. And what, should OP change his displayed name solely because I might have felt offended? This is an absurd. If we thought this way, we'd return to times of liberum veto, which - as you also might know - turned out to be ones of the worst times for pushing things forward in general.
If there were actual maids, who felt offended by naming a software development tool the same way as their job, and there were, like, at least 10 of them, then I'd actually considered changing the name.
Ah, and one more thing. Being a Christian, I feel offended by the name "Magic", because I believe, that there is no magic and belief in thereof is very harmful for humans. So I vote against that name.
@wojciechsura As someone that is fairly thick skinned I do find the complexities of social compassion interesting. At what point do you recognize someone's grievances. Original intent versus offensiveness
Your example of "Magic" just shows you that I should also not pick names ;)) The point is, I rather pick a name that everyone in general finds least offensive. The -14 votes is exactly the type of reaction I would expect, but that does not mean this is not offensive. It simply means those 14 people do not find it offensive. So do you ignore the rights of the minority even though it's offensive ? That is the question.
I agree with you that you can't satisfy everyone and I also do not have time for nitpicking but I can see this person point of view. If I felt emotional about this I would have upvoted the complaint but I don't.
Let's look at the slogan. If you are a sensitive person you will likely not approve of this. The slogan in combination with the name is probably a bad combo in my opinion and I'm not even looking at this from a sexist perspective.
I think some people will find fault when you are trashing someone else's job, let's try and be nice people.
Frankly, I'm getting damn sick of every word or phrase in the English language eventually "offending" someone. You have the right to be offended. That doesn't mean that anyone has to rename something just because you are offended. Be offended. If you don't like the name, scroll on.
A small thing to point out here @codecadwallader is that you're almost certainly going to need to release a completely new separate plugin (technically speaking) and, if you desire to, this would be an appropriate time to do a rename to "Code Cleaner" or something similar, that still goes with the tag-line too. Hopefully people will agree that "Cleaner" indicates the purpose and while it could be attributed to a job, it's non gender specific and with any luck not inflammatory.
Frankly, I'm getting damn sick of every word or phrase in the English language eventually "offending" someone. You have the right to be offended. That doesn't mean that anyone has to rename something just because you are offended. Be offended. If you don't like the name, scroll on.
By that logic Sherlock Savings and Loan would be just fine.
Sorry, Jesse, I don't see your point. It sounds like a nonsequitur to me.
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From: Jesse Liberty @.> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 7:01:21 AM To: codecadwallader/codemaid @.> Cc: Gary Lewis @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [codecadwallader/codemaid] I find the name Code Maid offensive and sexist. (#842)
Frankly, I'm getting damn sick of every word or phrase in the English language eventually "offending" someone. You have the right to be offended. That doesn't mean that anyone has to rename something just because you are offended. Be offended. If you don't like the name, scroll on.
By that logic Sherlock Savings and Loan would be just fine.
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I started using CodeMaid years ago, and every time I launch it, I dream of Codemaid, cleaning my code wearing stilettos, stockings and a nice costume. No other extensions gives me such feelings... Oh, I beg your pardon, aren't you kidding? Because I do, and I think that this is a very strange issue to open. I vote for closing it.
