cmss13-devs
SHARP Rifle Revived
About the pull request
This PR is a revival of PR https://github.com/cmss13-devs/cmss13/pull/2000
This PR adds in the P9 SHARP Rifle Operator as a subvariant of the Grenadier spec. specialists can choose either the Heavy Grenadier or the SHARP Operator spec sets, you cannot have both a GL and SHARP, in the same way you cannot have AMR and Sniper (excluding foxtrot spawns).
the SHARP is a magazine fed rifle, using three different dart types as ammunition The first two dart types are explosive, and incendiary darts. These both work in similar ways. On hitting an enemy with either of these types of dart, the dart will embed inside them (dealing minor damage) and then, if the target does not have IFF, will explode after a short delay. This delay is either 1 second, or 5 seconds, which you can toggle by pressing the toggle firemode key. The key difference between the two darts, is that explosive will explode (no way), and incendiary will form a cloud of phosphorous smoke around the target, the same as a normal WP grenade.
However, if you have bad aim and miss your target, the darts will embed into the ground. after 5 seconds, the dart will arm itself and become a mine. Mines have IFF, and will last for 5 minutes before disarming and becoming inert. These mines get stronger over time, upgrading in power every thirty seconds, with 4 levels of power in total. For explosive mines, each level is just higher explosion size, starting at 100, 115, 130, and 145 at level 4. For incendiary mines, level 1 is standard WP grenade, same as if you direct hit an enemy. Level two is the same as a standard HIDP grenade, with green flame. Level 3 is UT napalm, which is the same as the default pyro flame. Level 4 is UT napalm again, but the radius of the fire is increased by 1 tile. The charge level of each mine is indicated visually by the sprite.
The final dart type is flechette. these work differently from the other two dart types, as they cannot become mines. on hitting a tile, the dart will split into a number of flechette projectiles in front of it, similar to how AGM grenades function. sprite clicking an enemy with these is most optimal, as it ensures all the projectiles hit. Flechette darts also have a faster firing rate than that of the other two dart types.
Explain why it's good for the game
I think the SHARP rifle adds a unique gameplay style to the game. Mines are a pretty overlooked weapon in the marine arsenal. the SHARP has a high skill ceiling, figuring out where and when to best place your mines, since they don't last forever. At the same time it has effective offensive capability, best paired with teammates to help capitalize on your SHARP hits. The SHARP is an effective sidegrade to the classic GL specialist.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots & Videos
https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/2128f933-4950-479b-ab78-ecc528d12f67
https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/9d398e5b-6944-4579-a197-dde35e2f27f5
Changelog
:cl: Nomoresolvalou, TheManWithNoHands, Triiodine, Shad0vvs add: Added SHARP Operator spec, P9 SHARP rifle, and SHARP ammo belt balance: Added SHARP Operator spec to the squad spec vendor soundadd: Added SHARP gun sounds imageadd: Added SHARP rifle and ammo sprites (by Triiodine and TheManWithNoHands) /:cl:
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
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Could the fire rate get revised a bit? Atm it is a bit too easy to stun lock xenos.
And unlike the scout's impact ammo, it deals good damage AND works on bigger xenos.
While grenadier could do that with the other launcher, you could run away from the grenade, while darts just stick to you.
It almost feels like a delayed SADAR, except there is no risk of killing the push if you miss/FF and has way more shots.
bring the fire delay back to 1 sec, this shit cant stunlock unless the xeno ur shooting is really dumb tbh.
I don’t really want to have it stunlock that easily. It is still incredibly easy to hit a xeno with at least two darts if you are pursuing them, which is enough to kill, which is why I upped the detonation time. It gives xenos a small time to react, which was a point of frustration before. Of course if they don’t then you can hit them with another dart and they die.
I don’t really want to have it stunlock that easily. It is still incredibly easy to hit a xeno with at least two darts if you are pursuing them, which is enough to kill, which is why I upped the detonation time. It gives xenos a small time to react, which was a point of frustration before. Of course if they don’t then you can hit them with another dart and they die.
I had heard of that change, and sorry if i'm missing something. But that doesn't really address the stunlock part, right?
I mean, does the hit xeno have any options to deal with the dart at all? If not, what would increasing the detonation time change?
If the xeno could resist to try and pull it out, or otherwise perform some action to avoid the strong stun, then sure. But it still means certain death with as little as one dart, or 2 if the spec is alone.
I've heard some talk, including @chefoxara 's about it being easy to avoid. But i don't see how that's the case. You can't really dodge bullets.
If you'll allow some cheap backseating, removing the stun in favor of just heavier damage would probably solve the issue. Not SADAR's direct damage, but close. At least enough to send any T1 (except runner who should probably get gibbed) running back home at 20% or less HP, from full. Hell, slap some armor piercing and you get a reliable bulk damage spec. Just flavor it as a HEAT or HESH explosive.
I don’t really want to have it stunlock that easily. It is still incredibly easy to hit a xeno with at least two darts if you are pursuing them, which is enough to kill, which is why I upped the detonation time. It gives xenos a small time to react, which was a point of frustration before. Of course if they don’t then you can hit them with another dart and they die.
im very good with aim and i cant chainstun most xenos since the grenade code sucks and they miss alot for no reason (I AM SPRITE CLICKING BY THE WAY) ive also never seen anyone else chainstun xenos while observing, personally i managed to stun a woyer 2 times on my own and then i had to pull out a shotgun to kill em, and that was cause they were stuck up against a comms tower and couldnt flee so shrug the stun aint that long anyways, they get up within a sec or so. unless it was buffed from the last time i played spec.
i wouldnt remove the stuns cause GL (sharp) is literally for that, and anyways specs are meant to be somewhat powerful and excel in fighting what they are meant to be fighting (in this case T1 and T2s)
As long as the fire rate is similar to the stun time, stunlocking is pretty much guaranteed.
Even if you had the time to move 1 tile before being hit again, you still have to keep in mind movement acceleration is a thing. It would take a pretty bad spec to miss a slowed down xeno that moved a single tile.
Scout has a similar gameplay loop, but their stuns are range based AND his gun deals way less damage. This is leagues better than that. And unlike the scout, grenadier is encouraged to not go solo.
My main issue with the SHARP is that it is a ranged way to secure kills on T2s like the SADAR, but without any of the risks or ammo limitations. There's no counterplay other than not showing up where the spec may be. And unlike the SADAR, the spec doesn't have to call everyone to go away before firing, which would expose them and give you time to run.
As long as the fire rate is similar to the stun time, stunlocking is pretty much guaranteed.
GL can stunlock too and no one had problems with that, just fire grenades infront of retreating T2-T1 xeno, it gets stunned, spam them+ marines shooting it = it dies sharp is a bit more multifunctional than GL but then again you can just load batons into the GL launcher and chainstun xenos too, so???? last time i played normal GL i did that and killed a burrower and some runners???
Even if you had the time to move 1 tile before being hit again, you still have to keep in mind movement acceleration is a thing. It would take a pretty bad spec to miss a slowed down xeno that moved a single tile.
i cant seem to manage this, shooting a sent when there was a one sec detonation time, once it gets stunned, gets up, retreats, i hit it again, it gets up again, goes into the darkness and i cant chase cause im wearing GL armor, curious! my aim aint bad., hm!!
Scout has a similar gameplay loop, but their stuns are range based AND his gun deals way less damage. This is leagues better than that. And unlike the scout, grenadier is encouraged to not go solo.
dunno how much the nades deal but a good scout can deal 170dmg per burst + setting the xeno (one incen round in the chamber) on fire with their normal ammo or 120 + stunning
My main issue with the SHARP is that it is a ranged way to secure kills on T2s like the SADAR, but without any of the risks or ammo limitations. There's no counterplay other than not showing up where the spec may be. And unlike the SADAR, the spec doesn't have to call everyone to go away before firing, which would expose them and give you time to run.
sadar doesnt have to call everyone away most of the time, they just push their way thro most of the time or get a good position in a push, or rush in after a screech..
unrelated but : also the sharp spec FF sucks,, always breaks a bone (or so i was told) and gives you ultrashrap which you need to stand around for 10 secs or so to pull it out., meanwhile sadar FF is either "you got gibbed" or 200 ish brute damage.
there are ammo limitations, but the ammo is cheap, so you rarely run into them yes..
there is a counterplay, its called T3s.
we can agree to disagree. ig
At this point it is going to be incredibly difficult to make everyone happy with this weapon, which I believe to be the case with most additions. People already stand on two opposite sides of "useless gun" and "OP gun", and any changes I make will make one side reinforce their belief in that. What I hope to do is to keep both of these sides in mind, and based on my observations, make the gun as balanced as I can.
Currently from what I can tell, a large point of issue is that, from the xeno point of view, getting hit with an HEDP means you have a very high chance of dying. I attempted to address this by upping the lower det time to 2.5 seconds, to at least give the xenos a bit of a chance to run away, get behind cover, have teammates run to bodyblock for them, etc. With this in mind, a xeno stunned by the SHARP can have another HEDP implanted for basically free with the current fire rate. So as it currently stands, I am open to lowering the fire rate even more to prevent this, but as of now, I will leave this section of the gun unchanged until I get some further observations.
At this point it is going to be incredibly difficult to make everyone happy with this weapon, which I believe to be the case with most additions. People already stand on two opposite sides of "useless gun" and "OP gun", and any changes I make will make one side reinforce their belief in that. What I hope to do is to keep both of these sides in mind, and based on my observations, make the gun as balanced as I can.
i see alot of marines calling it a bad gun lel
The reason why it is so polarizing is because it excels at a very annoying gameplay loop.
It is bad for setting traps because getting a xeno at the exact time frame that the explosive is upgraded before it expires is dumb luck. I'd rather take land mines which at least don't expire and don't have a glowing red texture.
It is bad for demolishing structures because worse explosive power (and afaik it doesn't detonate on structures (?))
Its main strength is stun-locking. Avoiding the main role of this spec which is to spam AoE and flush out xenos from fortifications.
So yeah, it is good precisely at the worst thing it could be good at. So using it for its (from the PR) intended purpose makes it look bad, because it IS bad at it.
And no, the default GL is not the same, you can run from grenades if you're paying attention, you can't run away from a dart once fired. Avoiding the attack is on the spec's ability to aim, not on your ability to dodge.
I'd personally do this:
- Make the trap setting better. Maybe put a limit on live darts instead of an expiration timer and make the upgrade time way speedier (with perhaps a lower power cap).
- Reduce the fire rate drastically but reduce the explosion delay as well (because it really is not doing anything and kind of ends as an unnecessary nerf)
- Reduce the range of the sticking to xenos part to maybe 2-3 tiles, with anything further making it fall to the ground on impact (allowing xenos to actually run from the explosion if they are respecting the spec's operation range).
- Increase damage for stuck darts.
That way you get a good killer weapon at short range and an excellent trap setter at all other ranges.
Edit: chexofara, if you have something to add to the conversation or to address, you're free to do so. You don't have to leave a reaction and dip.
Spot-the-pixel is absolutely godawful, claymores were already bad enough but the darts are even easier to obscure with random debris. Mines aside, the embedded darts are just an attempt at obscuring grenades, it's not visually clear as opposed to HEDPs. Ruins the visual clarity of the game and its mechanics.
The base idea of a gun that works on sprite hits isn't bad, but that encroaches on the AGM-F grenade niche, can't you just get rid of the new ammo system and make this use some kinda rebalanced AGMs instead? If it really has to explode maybe add one that delivers a weak explosion in a frontal cone? Utterly cancerous to play against in current state and a plain bad feature.
"but the darts are even easier to obscure with random debris." why dont we move xeno traps above the object layer too then ? 🤔
game is stun based, ofc its "cancer" when muhrines get the ability to stun you (meanwhile you can tackle spam everyone to death) 🤷 really dont wanna see this get nerfed into the ground over cope like the tank or some other shit
"but the darts are even easier to obscure with random debris." why dont we move xeno traps above the object layer too then ? 🤔
game is stun based, ofc its "cancer" when muhrines get the ability to stun you (meanwhile you can tackle spam everyone to death) 🤷 really dont wanna see this get nerfed into the ground over cope like the tank or some other shit
You cannot compare xeno stuns to marine stuns.
Marines have several times the DPS per fighter than xenos do. As a result xenos need stuns to be able to survive. It is simply a requirement if marines are going to have that amount of stackable DPS.
Additionally, each xeno is worth at least 3 marines. So yes, xenos should in average be able to kill at least 3 marines per life. So "equal terms" is actually unbalanced.
Unless you want xenos to kill marines in 3 slashes or double current xeno numbers, or something like that just to keep parity with time to kill. I imagine you'd prefer that it stays as it is. Specs are the only ones that should be able to threaten a T2 or higher in 1v1. But a way to kill lower tiers en masse is even more unbalanced than something like the SADAR which can ocassionally kill a T3.
double current xeno numbers
would be fire (if they got nerfed with double numbers)
You cannot compare xeno stuns to marine stuns.
i just did
Specs are the only ones that should be able to threaten a T2 or higher in 1v1.
yea they are doing just that, threatening and sometimes killing T2-T3s GL is for clearing walls and killing T1s T2s, sharp is the same thing but instead of clearing he has area denial :>
The m in magazine for the Flechette magazine is the only one capitalized and I don't know if that's on purpose. SPEC VENDOR.
wanted to say that HE should be red and INC should be yellow, actually since incen sets things on blue fire why not make it blue. pls
wanted to say that HE should be red and INC should be yellow
HE and incend are already red and yellow respectively, to reflect the colors of the grenades.
wanted to say that HE should be red and INC should be yellow
HE and incend are already red and yellow respectively, to reflect the colors of the grenades.
i swear it used to be swapped around.. maybe im just imagining things lol.