Create journal-of-music-archaeology.csl

[StefanHagel]

CSL for newly founded Journal of Music Archaeology, published at the Austrian Academy of Sciences: https://jma.vlg.oeaw.ac.at/

[github-actions[bot]]

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[github-actions[bot]]

:worried: There are some issues with your submission.

3 tests failed

journal-of-music-archaeology: "template" link must point to an existing independent style

expected ["academy-of-management-review", "accident-analysis-and-prevention", "aci-materials-journal", "acm-si...chaftlichen-arbeiten", "zoological-journal-of-the-linnean-society", "zootaxa", "zwitscher-maschine"] to include "harvard-cardiff-university"

journal-of-music-archaeology: style ID must be of the form "http://www.zotero.org/styles/" + style file name (without ".csl" extension, e.g. "http://www.zotero.org/styles/apa")

expected: "http://www.zotero.org/styles/journal-of-music-archaeology"
     got: "f1732a6e-39c0-11ed-a261-0242ac120002"

(compared using ==)

journal-of-music-archaeology: "self" link must match the style ID

expected: "http://www.zotero.org/styles/journal-of-music-archaeology"
     got: "f1732a6e-39c0-11ed-a261-0242ac120002"

(compared using ==)

Please check the test report for details.

[github-actions[bot]]

:smiley: Your submission passed all our automated tests.

Below are some sample citations generated based on your proposed changes:

journal-of-music-archaeology.csl (new)

Hancké et al. 2007; Anon. 2012
Mares 2001; Fenner et al. 2019

---

Anon. (2012). CSL search by example [Online] Available at: http://editor.citationstyles.org/searchByExample/ [Accessed: 15 December 2012].
Fenner, M. et al. (2019). A data citation roadmap for scholarly data repositories. Scientific Data 6, 28. DOI: 10.1038/s41597-019-0031-8.
Hancké, B., Rhodes, M., and Thatcher, M. (eds) (2007). Beyond varieties of capitalism: Conflict, contradiction, and complementarities in the European economy. Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press.
Mares, I. (2001). Firms and the welfare state: When, why, and how does social policy matter to employers? In: P.A. Hall and D. Soskice (eds), Varieties of capitalism. The institutional foundations of comparative advantage, New York: Oxford University Press, 184–213.

[adam3smith]

Thanks & sorry for the delay in reviewing. @StefanHagel generally this looks great, but I'm a bit puzzled by the in-text citation format: that's really not supposed to have parentheses? It's unclear from the author guidelines (though note the year in parenthesis in the narrative citation example West (1992: 153–55) ) but it seems very odd to have in-text citations without any marker like a parenthesis.

[StefanHagel]

In the humanities, and perhaps especially in the kind of studies where I am at home, we have a tradition of very flexible usage of footnotes, which are much more often used for traditional argument.

Therefore, although it may sometimes make sense to have short citations in the running text in parentheses, we mostly need the possibility to insert citations in the footnotes as in-text citations, whether also in parentheses or in narrative style.

As you know, this comes with the downside of not being easily convertible into other formats, but there's no way around that.

(Compare the well-established Journal of Hellenic Studies.)

Thanks for all your work!!! Stefan

On 16 Nov 2022 at 20:13, Sebastian Karcher wrote:

Thanks & sorry for the delay in reviewing. @StefanHagel generally this looks great, but I'm a bit puzzled by the in-text citation format: that's really not supposed to have parentheses? It's unclear from the author guidelines (though note the year in parenthesis in the narrative citation example West (1992: 153-55) ) but it seems very odd to have in-text citations without any marker like a parenthesis.

Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.

-- PD Dr Stefan Hagel PI Ancient Music Österreichisches Archäologisches Institut | Austrian Archaeological Institute Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften | Austrian Academy of Sciences

Hollandstraße 11-13/6.20, 1020 Wien, Österreich | Vienna, Austria T: +43 1 51581-2341 @.*** | https://www.oeaw.ac.at/oeai/ https://homepage.univie.ac.at/stefan.hagel/

[adam3smith]

Compare the well-established Journal of Hellenic Studies.)

So I looked at JHS & its styleguide and I think our style there is just wrong. The instructions for authors are very clear that citations should be in notes, so that should be a note style and I suspect that's the way to go here, as well, unless you're saying that citations can actually be used outside notes, too, which seems unlikely (and would be a very confusing stylistic choice).

[StefanHagel]

Yes, the citations in JHS should be in notes, but notes are very different from what STEM-informed practice might think they are. There is no way a typical argumentative footnote in JHS can be expressed as a citation field wholesale, and conversion between these and notes-in-text styles could never work.

Here's a typical footnote, taken from a publication of mine in JHS:

8   For this mechanism, cf. Howard (1893) 5-8; Bodley 
(1946) (whose scales are unfortunately based on the 
unfounded theory proposed by Schlesinger (1939); cf. 
Landels (1981) 300-1); Masaraki (1974); Litvinsky 
(1999). On a different slider mechanism, cf. also Byrne 
(2002). In most cases only scattered sections of these 
elaborate pipes remain [...]  

As I said, this can only be achieved by employing in-text mode and using in-text citations within footnotes. With the additional benefit of using them in illustration captions as well.

It's not wrong, it's Classics... And it has worked for me for many years across various journals.

Best, Stefan

On 17 Nov 2022 at 6:26, Sebastian Karcher wrote:

Compare the well-established Journal of Hellenic Studies.) So I looked at JHS & its styleguide and I think our style there is just wrong. The instructions for authors are very clear that citations should be in notes, so that should be a note style and I suspect that's the way to go here, as well, unless you're saying that citations can actually be used outside notes, too, which seems unlikely (and would be a very confusing stylistic choice).

Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.

PD Dr Stefan Hagel PI Ancient Music Österreichisches Archäologisches Institut | Austrian Archaeological Institute Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften | Austrian Academy of Sciences

Hollandstraße 11-13/6.20, 1020 Wien, Österreich | Vienna, Austria T: +43 1 51581-2341 @.*** | www.oeaw.ac.at/oeai homepage.univie.ac.at/stefan.hagel

[adam3smith]

I know what discursive footnotes are -- I've been working on citation styles for over a decade ;).

You're just slightly misunderstanding how CSL note styles work:

As I said, this can only be achieved by employing in-text mode and using in-text citations within footnotes.

That's not the case: if you insert a citation in a note style into a footnote/endnote with CSL, it behaves like an in text citation, so the above is absolutely possible without an in-text style. (Slightly less complex discursive notes can also easily be generated by using prefix and suffix elements in the citation as explained e.g. for Zotero here). The advantage of this is that a) you save yourself some time when just inserting simple citation -- which, looking e.g. at your recent article in GRMS, are still the majority of citations and b) you maintain compatibility with other note-based styles commonly used in the humanities. I don't think a scenario where someone wants to move from, say, Chicago Manual (note) to this (or the JHL or the GRMS) style is implausible or even rare, and designating them as in-text breaks that.

[StefanHagel]

Still,

1. we do not discourage authors from using simple in-text citations, especially when they only add the year to a name specified in the text. Why not offering flexibility and a whiff of personal style, especially in a field that brings together experts from very diverse fields?

2. I find having automatic citations in captions highly practical.

It is true that people might want to move between note and JHS/GRMS/JMA style. Your stance here is technical compatibility as long as compatibility is maintained by the user, which requires a high level of understanding what is going on. I do see the advantages. Mine is rather not pretending it is possible, i.e. users should realise quickly it does not really work and therefore not risk losing data because it seems generally to be working. Based on my experiences when first exploring citation software. That's perhaps a matter of 'philosophy', and my idea may be mistaken. Even so, do the points above justify not switching to note style?

Having GRMS and JMA working similarly and keeping these compatible would be important because there's a substantial overlap between potential contributors to both (and JHS, btw).

Again, thank you for your incredible contribution to the life of so many of us!

On 17 Nov 2022 at 18:21, Sebastian Karcher wrote:

I know what discursive footnotes are -- I've been working on citation styles for over a decade ;). You're just slightly misunderstanding how CSL note styles work: As I said, this can only be achieved by employing in-text mode and using in-text citations within footnotes. That's not the case: if you insert a citation in a note style into a footnote/endnote with CSL, it behaves like an in text citation, so the above is absolutely possible without an in-text style. (Slightly less complex discursive notes can also easily be generated by using prefix and suffix elements in the citation as explained e.g. for Zotero here). The advantage of this is that a) you save yourself some time when just inserting simple citation -- which, looking e.g. at your recent article in GRMS, are still the majority of citations and b) you maintain compatibility with other note-based styles commonly used in the humanities. I don't think a scenario where someone wants to move from, say, Chicago Manual (note) to this (or the JHL or the GRMS) style is implausible or even rare, and designating them as in-text breaks that.

Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.

-- PD Dr Stefan Hagel PI Ancient Music Österreichisches Archäologisches Institut | Austrian Archaeological Institute Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften | Austrian Academy of Sciences

Hollandstraße 11-13/6.20, 1020 Wien, Österreich | Vienna, Austria T: +43 1 51581-2341 @.*** | https://www.oeaw.ac.at/oeai/ https://homepage.univie.ac.at/stefan.hagel/

[adam3smith]

I've spent some time thinking about this and I'm sorry to say that I remain unconvinced. My biggest concern here is consistent behavior for users: we have a fairly large number of styles that use author-date in notes, and as far as I know, all of them except the three mentioned here insert notes. That includes most styles covering classics, such as Journal of Roman Archaeology, Oxford Studies on the Roman Economy, Religion in the Roman Empire, The Journal of Roman Studies, Bulletin de correspondance hellénique, Archeologia Classica to name just a couple of the ones that I found in a couple of minutes. That's in addition to author-date styles in notes used in other disciplines (we have a bunch of them in political science, e.g.) and by various universities. I think wanting all such styles to work the same way isn't technical -- it really comes down to not behaving in a way that's unintelligible for users, i.e. a good user experience. And even if you think compatibility with short note styles like Chicago isn't a big deal (of which I'm still not convinced), surely we'd want compatibility between styles using the same citation patterns in the same field.

So I'll insist here that both this and your other style really should be note styles and that we'll switch over the JHS style. Yes, this does come at the cost of citations in image captions, but image captions are in a weird separate category of citations anyway: many styles want completely different formats for citations there, at least Zotero seems wary about people using automated citations in them, and most journal submission systems require you to copy & paste captions separately anyway, so while I won't claim they're useless -- you clearly like them -- I don't think they're a dealbreaker.