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Lessons in languages other than English
Has there ever been a consideration to provide the lessons in other languages? An example of Africa, maybe french for Francophone countries and Swahili? For most of people from this countries their first language is french or swahili, and i think it would go a long way in aiding of their understanding of the concepts
Hi @bnwaweru You can read about the work of our Spanish language translation team here and here.
I think @ErinBecker can talk to you more about communities who have been interested in other language translations.
Dear Maneesha,
Thank you for your response and for the links, i will definitely join the Africa Carpentries team.
I hope to learn more from @ErinBecker .
Sincerely,
Bernice
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 6:30 PM maneesha sane [email protected] wrote:
Hi @bnwaweru https://github.com/bnwaweru You can read about the work of our Spanish language translation team here https://carpentries.org/community/#carpentries-en-latinoam%C3%A9rica and here https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/regional_communities/carpentries_en_latinoamerica.html .
I think @ErinBecker https://github.com/ErinBecker can talk to you more about communities who have been interested in other language translations.
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-- Bernice N. Waweru Research Fellow, Bioinformatics CoP, BecA- ILRI, Nairobi https://acaciaafrica.org/bioinformatics-community-practice/
Junior Scientist, Plant Breeding & Biotech (MSc) KALRO-Food Crops Institute - MAS Labs Mobile; 254 712 471 279 Email; [email protected] Skype name; ngina.ngugi
Hi @bnwaweru - My apologies for the delayed response - we've had a holiday weekend here in the US. There have indeed been various conversations about creating language translations for a number of The Carpentries' lessons, and there are now a number of Spanish translations that are supported by community members as active Maintainers. At present, we do not have staff time available for supporting or maintaining language translations, especially given the vast number of languages that have been proposed. However, all of The Carpentries materials are licensed CC-BY and can be used and modified by anyone so long as the original source of the material is referenced. The Spanish translations group has been very successful in coordinating community effort to provide and maintain translations, and may be able to provide some guidelines on their process.
I know that providing our official lessons only in English imposes a barrier to their use in communities where English is not a primary language and therefore a barrier to equitable access as The Carpentries spreads to and grows in these communities. Thank you for raising this issue and keeping the issue of translations at the forefront of conversation in our community.
There has been some discussion of starting a "Translation Task Force" of people from various language communities to discuss the technical barriers in supporting multi-language versioning of our lessons. I would love to see such a group form and provide recommendations around possible solutions to The Carentries staff and Executive Council on how we can best move forward in addressing this accessibility issue. Pinging @raynamharris (who coordinated much of the Spanish translation efforts) - @raynamharris, would you be able to add pings here for anyone you think might be interested in organizing or getting involved with such a task force? I'll also look back through previous conversations on this and add some names here as well. Thank you again @bnwaweru for raising this question!
@ngrafgr - re. Portuguese @juan-pineda - re. Spanish @statkclee - re. Korean @TomKellyGenetics and @peterjc - re. Japanese @fmichonneau - re. French @dpshelio - re. Spanish and technical implementation @rgaiacs - re. Portuguese and technical implementation @nicoguaro - re. Spanish
Also see:
- This thread about Software Carpentry in Japanese.
- This GitHub issue for a doathon proposal to translate some lessons into Spanish.
- Checklists in French.
- This PR around translating the Handbook.
- This blog post about translations by David Pérez-Suárez
- This GitHub issue about translating SWC lessons to Korean
- This blog post by Raniere Silva about translating SWC lessons to Portuguese
- This GitHub issue about creating a translations workflow
It would be great to make a master-list of all of the relevant conversations the community has had around translations, particularly around technical issues in translation, and keep those in one location to inform future community discussions. I'll continue to look around for more items to add to this list, but if you know of any that are missing in the list above, please let me know.
It does seem like it would be nice to have a group of people dedicated to staying informed about translations and providing guidance and/or standards for translating lessons.
I know a lot of people are passionate about Spanish translations. I'm not sure who would be also interested in being part of the discussion (or potential task force) about lessons translations in general, but people who come to mind are @agbeltran @orchid00 @map0logo @dpshelio @martinolmos @NPalopoli @Helysalgado @flor14
Thanks Rayna! Hello! I am planning to contribute with Spanish translations in the following month. It sounds interesting to me being part of a discussion with other instructors about that topic.
Hi @bnwaweru, another option is automatic google translation. Here is an example https://carpentries-es.github.io/sql-ecology-lesson-es/ the top right corner of the menu is a language selector. This is something we tried a me tested last year, the translation using main languages was rated as good enough. This example was made by berenice, mateuz and I.
Hi everyone, I'm happy to advise based on what we've experienced with Japanese so far. We're very much following in the footsteps of the Spanish team and are grateful for their efforts and advice. There are some Slack/Topicbox channels for localised lessons and for Japanese we also use our own GitHub organisation repo to track our translations. This is open if you want to use it to guide your own translations or give us feedback: https://github.com/swcarpentry-ja/i18n
There is a local-africa group on the TopicBox so it may be good to reach out there to see if anyone will help you. I've heard that there is interest in a French language version of the lessons in Canada as well so it may be possible to co-ordinate that.
It seems that there is a lot of interest in localisation of lessons and building communities in new (non-English speaking) places. Perhaps we should consider making a channel or list specifically to discuss these.
It is also a holiday period in Japan next week after I return from Seoul. I'm happy to answer any questions but I will be taking a break at this time.
Dear Everyone,
Thank you all for such positive responses and feedback!
This became a concern for a group of us who were recently trained under the Bioinformatics Community of Practise at ILRI-BecA in Nairobi Kenya. We are from different African countries, where for some Swahili and French are the languages of communication and teaching. It would be useful to have the lessons in a language spoken by all.
Paula's suggestion is great for the upcoming trainings in a case where there are challenges.
For the long-term, i think it's definitely worth having groups working on the translations to local languages, and i will be happy to contact the Africa teams and know how we can move forward with this.
The greatest aspect i appreciate about the Carpentries is the global network and the available resources already in place, with all this language translations will definitely be achievable.
Looking forward to working on this,
Best,
Bernice
On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 8:31 PM Erin Becker [email protected] wrote:
@ngrafgr https://github.com/ngrafgr - re. Portugese @ juan-pineda - re. Spanish
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-- Bernice N. Waweru Research Fellow, Bioinformatics CoP, BecA- ILRI, Nairobi https://acaciaafrica.org/bioinformatics-community-practice/
Junior Scientist, Plant Breeding & Biotech (MSc) KALRO-Food Crops Institute - MAS Labs Mobile; 254 712 471 279 Email; [email protected] Skype name; ngina.ngugi
Hi Rayna,
Thanks for the coordination. Pleased to participate and support what I can and is within my reach.
regards,
Hely Salgado
El mar., 23 abr. 2019 a las 15:17, Rayna M Harris ([email protected]) escribió:
It does seem like it would be nice to have a group of people dedicated to staying informed about translations and providing guidance and/or standards for translating lessons.
I know a lot of people are passionate about Spanish translations. I'm not sure who would be also interested in being part of the discussion (or potential task force) about lessons translations in general, but people who come to mind are @agbeltran https://github.com/agbeltran @orchid00 https://github.com/orchid00 @map0logo https://github.com/map0logo @dpshelio https://github.com/dpshelio @martinolmos https://github.com/martinolmos @NPalopoli https://github.com/NPalopoli @Helysalgado https://github.com/Helysalgado @flor14 https://github.com/flor14
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Hi all - it seems like we have quite a bit of momentum here around creating and maintaining lesson translations for communities outside of predominantly English-speaking regions. I like the idea of creating a mailing list or Slack channel (or both) dedicated to growing The Carpentries in non-English speaking areas. Any suggestions for what we should name such a channel?
Hi Erin,
I'd suggest "localisation" or "internationalisation" as we've also had to deal with differences in culture and background knowledge. Especially for Japanese and Korean, I think a direct translation is not always the best approach as learners would invest time in understanding examples that are unfamiliar to them rather than on the core concepts. In Japan "language" and "nationality" are closely associated (although some of our team are based outside of Japan) but I don't think the "local" groups are ideal for this, especially for other languages that are used around the world.
Hi All, This is great! I just arrive to this thread through Slack. I've been getting increasingly involved in the Spanish translation and in growing The Carpentries reach in Spanish-speaking countries, too. Happy to join a more general translation taskforce, too. Indeed, I just wrote to Francois asking about how to work in the Spanish The Carpentries without losing ties with "The Carpentries mothership". A translation taskforce would be ideal to unite all translation efforts and to learn from each other. Thank you!
Hi all, Thank you @ErinBecker for redirecting me here. I can help with the translation of some lessons to French, if the Africa team is interested (hi @bnwaweru !). Since I am new to the Carpentries, I am not sure whether there is something I can really bring to a general translation task force yet, but I think that's a great idea! Many things to think about.
Unrelated, but I believe this may be of interest to people in this thread: https://discuss.ropensci.org/t/community-call-managing-multilingual-communities/1722
This thread is great! It'd be great to coordinate efforts with the different translations, and create a single process/infrastructure to handle updates, etc.
Hi Erin,
I'd suggest "localisation" or "internationalisation" as we've also had to deal with differences in culture and background knowledge. Especially for Japanese and Korean, I think a direct translation is not always the best approach as learners would invest time in understanding examples that are unfamiliar to them rather than on the core concepts. In Japan "language" and "nationality" are closely associated (although some of our team are based outside of Japan) but I don't think the "local" groups are ideal for this, especially for other languages that are used around the world.
+1 for internationalisation
And about infrastructure/process, @dpshelio has been experimenting with different options that sound great.
@agbeltran Yes, we've been working with a fork of the internationalisation tools developed by @dpshelio for the Japanese team. We had a bit of confusion getting started but it's working great for a small group of translators. You can see our guides (in English) and progress at the repo below.
Internationalisation: https://github.com/swcarpentry-i18n/i18n Japanese fork: https://github.com/swcarpentry-ja/i18n
Hello! We are using the tool of @dpshelio too, through a platform called Transifex (https://www.transifex.com/) for the translation to Spanish of the code of conduct.
El lun., 3 jun. 2019 a las 3:07, Tom Kelly ([email protected]) escribió:
@agbeltran https://github.com/agbeltran Yes, we've been working with a fork of the internationalisation tools developed by @dpshelio https://github.com/dpshelio for the Japanese team. We had a bit of confusion getting started but it's working great for a small group of translators. You can see our guides (in English) and progress at the repo below.
Internationalisation: https://github.com/swcarpentry-i18n/i18n Japanese fork: https://github.com/swcarpentry-ja/i18n
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Hi all - I've just created the Slack channel #internationalisation. If you're not yet on The Carpentries Slack organization, you can join here: https://swc-slack-invite.herokuapp.com/. To join the new channel: https://swcarpentry.slack.com/messages/CL357S0CD'
I haven't yet advertised the new channel anywhere, but please feel free to invite any community members you think may be interested or to send out a Tweet!
There is a lot of community excitement about this, for many of the different languages that our Instructors, learners, and other community members use. Individual lesson translations have been works of passion by community members, and have undoubtedly been used in many individual workshops, but because of the current lack of infrastructure in our lesson stack to support maintenance of multiple languages, it quickly becomes difficult to keep translations in synch with one another. I would love to see an Internationalisation working group come together to identify a path forward for long-term support of multi-language lessons. (e.g. using the framework developed by David Perez-Suarez here: http://dpshelio.github.io/blog/2018/04/15/a-sustainable-way-to-translate-the-carpentries-lessons.html). I can’t provide much help on the technical side, but would be overjoyed to help this group get organized and schedule their first few meetings!
This is timely for us. Progress with the Japanese team has been slow recently but we are meeting soon to discuss how we can make things easier for more people to get involved. I've posted more details on the internationalisation channel. We also have dedicated channels:
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/curriculum-japanese (English)
https://r-wakalang.slack.com/messages/CEG87QAE5/ (English/Japanese)
To update on this, a workshop in Japanese has been held recently: https://swcarpentry-ja.github.io/2021-04-02-todai-online-en/
Hopefully, more to come. We'll update with a blog post in time.
Tagging @fmichonneau @tobyhodges @zkamvar - Do we want to keep this open? Do we have a place where we maintain lists of official/unofficial lesson translations?
Bump @fmichonneau @tobyhodges @zkamvar - Do we want to keep this open? Do we have a place where we maintain lists of official/unofficial lesson translations?
I believe this is related to the work @acrall is leading with the Community Development Program and establishing a registry of The Carpentries subcommunities. Specifically, I can imagine that the registry of subcommunities will provide us with a way for community members to list efforts being made towards internationalisation of our lessons and other content. Just yesterday I heard from one of our Regional Coordinators about how they are frequently approached with questions about lesson translations, so this is still clearly an area of great interest for our community.
From the perspective of the Curriculum Team, It is our hope that we will secure funding to allow us to dedicate support to the coordination of internationalisation efforts across our community. When we have that funding and can begin that work in earnest, the information in this thread will provide very helpful context.
Finally, I am not aware of a single location where we list internationalisation efforts and/or lessons available in languages other than English. Such a list would undoubtedly be helpful but I would prefer not to devote time to preparing it while The Carpentries website is in the process of redesign/redevelopment. Instead, I would prefer to keep this open for now so that community members can find it, and close it when we have a better resource to provide to people who want to get up-to-speed with the latest internationalisation efforts in the community.
Thanks, @tobyhodges, for tagging me on this. This issue was raised yesterday during the second call for the CDP. Myself, and a couple of community members on that call, plan to pull together a themed community discussion on this very topic. We thought a Community Discusssion might serve as a nice foundation to potentially propose a session or session(s) for CarpentryCon.
I'm tagging others here who I've been communicating with about pulling together a relevant Community Discussion: @joelnitta @annajiat @dpshelio @yabellini @paocorrales @elletjies