Genetically Accurate Phenotypes as opposed to developmentally construed ones

[YamiPryncess]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe. A clear and concise description of what the problem is or a new idea.

The problem is that the lower half of the face varies among different phenotypes that MBLab has in ways that aren't genetic. Any person making models may want to make their characters in a particular way to give a desired effect. They may want to make their character really attractive (always has proper mouth posture) or show that they have bad habits (makes stupid faces to mock people) or are full of stress (keeps their mouth open or clenches their teeth). These features could be applied to the ethnicity and natural bone structure of their model (phenotype) to get the desired effect. That would give an ultimate range creative of freedom that's accurate to what true humans are like. I think that the models in MBLab don't allow for these effects out of the box. You'd have to alter the models manually. Now that's asking for a lot of features but MBLab's phenotypes are already altered versions of humans default genetics in this way. The phenotypes in MBLab are not their default genetic selves. (The tl;dr is that I believe that they should be their default genetic selves out of the box and then alterable manually by an artist or through customization scales. I'll explain why they aren't in the next paragraphs.)

I imagine it was with best intentions of studying scientifically researched phenotypes that these models were made but science is always gaining new understandings. Old information can become out dated in just a few decades. So I want to make a hispanic female that's like me (This is what I am) but if I pick a hispanic female she has to have a giant philtrum/lengthy maxilla bone (This is what you get in MBLabs). I don't like this because it's not genetically accurate and as a non artist (I will be learning how to model eventually) I have no idea how to change it. The reason I say it's not genetically accurate is because Dr.John and Mike Mew have proven that the development of the jaw bones and maxilla are greatly dependent on the environment. That environment is your oral posture which can be affected by allergies, how hard the food you eat is, braces in many but not all cases, teeth extractions, and whether you were breast fed, etc.

Basically if people keep their tongue on the roof of their mouths (without touching or sucking on their teeth with their tongue) then they would get forward development in their maxilla and width development in their upper jaw. If they keep their teeth lightly together in vertical alignment (non vertical alignment would cause asymmetry) then they'd get rotational development on their mandible, their maxilla's length will shorten, the bottom part of the mandible will become longer, and the lower jaw will widen. (To my understanding) Here is an explaination from Dr. Mike Mew with proof of these forces happening to a middle aged celebrity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijFkcLMmSJI (So bones can change even after you're past 25, but slowly)

The tongue has to be completely flat up against the roof of the mouth from the uvula section in the back to slightly behind the front teeth at the tip of the tongue like this https://www.agesandstages.net/pictures/tongueposture.jpg The lips also have to be sealed without using any muscles else they'd become flabby, unevenly enlarged/shrunk, or the cheeks themselves would become less hollow. Those are the main rules to proper mouth posture along with the ones I said in the previous paragraph. You can learn about them from John and Mike Mew themselves. They made many more videos on the topic in their Orthotropics youtube channel and writings on their website too.

So now with my Hispanic woman, she is stuck at her environmental development. I can not bring her to her default genetic potential as a non-artist using MBLabs. I haven't tried comparing the bone structures between all the Phenotypes yet but from what I remember I think some have more recessed lower mid face development than others. I have to check. This makes it so that non-artists again can not create a model with a desired effect like a woman with the high cheek bones and deep eyes that is actually the default genetically to general humans with all phenotypes... Instead your model has to be the woman with the long recessed maxilla if you don't know how to edit it.

Describe the solution you'd like A clear and concise description of what you want to happen.

The phenotypes should be their default genetic selves out of the box and then alterable manually by an artist or through customization scales (customization facial development scales is an optional part of my proposal) other wise. Rather than having hispanics developed a certain way and asians develop another way environmentally (again I didn't compare different phenotypes in MBLabs to know if they differ significantly. It's just still disappointing that I can't make the character I intended genetically out of the box despite their being choices for phenotypes. My hispanic girl is limited to the long maxilla and philtrum unfortunately.)

Describe alternatives you've considered A clear and concise description of any alternative solutions or features you've considered.

There is a game called Dauntless that let's you alter the lower face via 2 scales. So characters start at some level of development and then you can choose to recess/fowardly-develop them in those 2 different scales or extremify their features if you like. If we were to get into more detail than that then the scales that could be added are the inner U bone development, the outer U bone development, nose bone development, fat development (fat is the only one that has nothing to do with orthotropics), interpupillary distance*, the lip muscle development (flabby or uneven lips), the cheek muscle development (we're supposed to have hollow cheeks but muscle development makes them non hollow), and the masseter muscle development. It's important to understand that not using your muscles will make them small eventually so it's just a matter of whether you use those muscles through out the day or not. Your muscular habits will determine how your muscles develop and how much they develop. (Resting position would make the make the masseters fairly strong but every other muscle smaller but firmly plum. It's also possible to make the masseters humongous through endless exercise. Some youtubers who already have forwardly developed bone structures have posted saying that they had even more bone change when it just actually seems to be extra muscle change.) Putting all of this developmental diversity aside, The main solution I'd like is to preserve each phenotype's genetic potential. All of these developmental features should be at their default states in MBLab out of the box. (Update: I forgot to mention, The distance between the eyes can change via posture as well!!* Also, wide bone development shouldn't be confused with some one who has a wide face genetically.)

Additional context Add any other context or screenshots about the feature request here.

In the future, I will attempt to make these things my self but I am no where near having the level of skill required to do it. For now if a contributor for MBLab would like to do it please consider studying people's faces with this new information in mind! Their are specific measurements that the mews have put out there that describe what the average lower mid face is supposed to measure. It's supposed to be 36 to 38mm in height from the bottom of the front teeth to the tip of the nose and 50-55mm width (don't remember to well) between the gums at the first large molars (the molar after the 2 premolars. This is called intramolar width). I may not be remembering perfectly so this has to be double checked. With this I hope we could bring old research about Phenotypes and new Research that the Mew's have done in Orthodontists with their school of Orthotropics together! Into every phenotype's default environmental and genetic form out of the box of MBLabs. Here are nice pictures of indigenous families (that would be considered latin-american/hispanic by some Americans) with forwardly developed faces! https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2011/12/the-ashaninka-a-threatened-way-of-life/100208/?fbclid=IwAR1T5hgdQqOFr3Ym4_i-SSKgPy85ThccM5SGkLoGkFZLsZ6yTaQ9xl_B2vE

[animate1978]

Quite a few of the phenotypes have been made by simply using this website as a reference.

http://humanphenotypes.net/

There are some duplicates as oversight.

Also note that the phenotypes are simply the JSON files that have used the morph sliders to edit, so many of them could very well be wrong.

[YamiPryncess]

I should add, models (perfume model, fashion model, etc) are another fair reference for forwardly developed faces too. They may not be "perfect" examples but they'll often be pretty developed. Other than that you have Paleolithic Skulls, etc.

Like I said before the long face was my main issue rather than perfection. Having the choice to make the cheek bones big or the face long, medium, or short for any ethnicity would be an amazing feature. Not only that but faithful to both human development due to environment and the genetics of a particular ethnicity.

Thank you for the response! I could imagine how the morph sliders and duplications could do that. The phenotypes on the site definitely vary in craniofacial dystrophy.