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Consolidation of Post-V2 Glyph Correction Suggestions

Open kenlunde opened this issue 5 years ago • 75 comments

For issues related to HKSCS-2016 and Hong Kong in general, please be sure to reference 香港電腦漢字參考字形 before posting an issue here.

The following table shows the glyphs that will be corrected in the next update, and unless otherwise noted, the corrections are from my own notes:

Character Glyph Name Description
U+50E7 僧 uni50E7-HK Adjust the lower-right component so that its middle horizontal stroke does not touch the right-most vertical stroke
U+89E6 触 uni89E6-CN the vertical stroke of the 虫 component has uneven weight near the bottom, which appears only in the Light, Normal, and Regular weights
U+8FD0 运 uni8FD0-CN The lower-left corner of the 云 component has a join error (a small gap)
U+9EA4 麤 uni9EA4-JP The ExtraLight master needs to be adjusted so that the top-most vertical stroke does not penetrate the horizontal stroke below.
U+25C4A 𥱊 u25C4A-HK Add the missing stroke to the top of the bottom component (see Issue #243)

The following table shows the glyphs that were corrected in the Version 2.001 update, and unless otherwise noted, the corrections are from my own notes:

Character Glyph Name Description
U+3C54 㱔 uni3C54-HK Modify the 匕 component per HK conventions
U+3D75 㵵 uni3D75-HK Modify the final stroke of the lower-right 人 component to curve inward
U+451D 䔝 uni451D-HK Modify the 匕 component per HK conventions
U+4894 䢔 uni4894-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+48AE 䢮 uni48AE-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+48B0 䢰 uni48B0-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+4E31 丱 uni4E31-CN Modify the first stroke so that it has no foot
U+56F9 囹 uni56F9-TW Modify the final stroke of the 人 component to curve outward
U+585F 塟 uni585F-HK Modify the 匕 component per HK conventions
U+58BA 墺 uni58BA-TW Add a hook to the lower-right of the 冂 component (see Issue #212)
U+5BE9 審 uni5BE9-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+5DB4 嶴 uni5DB4-TW Add a hook to the lower-right of the 冂 component (see Issue #212)
U+611F 感 uni611F-TW Modify the 咸 component so that the horizontal stroke above 口 does not touch the vertical stroke to its left (see Issue #213)
U+64AD 播 uni64AD-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+64D9 擙 uni64D9-TW Add a hook to the lower-right of the 冂 component (see Issue #212)
U+65DB 旛 uni65DB-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+66AD 暭 uni66AD-CN Modify the four short diagonal strokes of the 臯 component so that they do not touch
U+68B5 梵 uni68B5-TW Modify the final stroke of the upper-right 木 component to curve outward
U+6A4E 橎 uni6A4E-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+6F58 潘 uni6F58-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+6F5C 潜 uni6F5C-HK Change the 日 component to 曰
U+6FB8 澸 uni6FB8-TW Modify the 咸 component so that the horizontal stroke above 口 does not touch the vertical stroke to its left (see Issue #213)
U+700B 瀋 uni700B-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+7131 焱 uni7131-TW Modify the final stroke of the top 火 component to curve outward
U+720B 爋 uni720B-CN Modify the center vertical stroke so that it is thinner only within the box-like element (more obvious at heavier weights)
U+72C5 狅 uni72C5-TW Modify the upper-right horizontal stroke to be slightly diagonal (see Issue #215)
U+74A0 璠 uni74A0-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
uni74F5-TW 瓵 uni74F5-TW Modify the lower-left corner of the 瓦 so that it conforms to TW conventions
U+76A4 皤 uni76A4-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+7FFA 翺 uni7FFA-CN Modify the four short diagonal strokes of the 臯 component so that they do not touch
U+7FFB 翻 uni7FFB-TW Modify the 番 component so that the 釆 and 田 subcomponents do not touch (see Issue #214)
U+8FCD 迍 uni8FCD-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FDA 迚 uni8FDA-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FE0 迠 uni8FE0-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FE2 迢 uni8FE2-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FE6 迦 uni8FE6-JP, uni8FE6-CN & uni8FE6-JP90-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FE8 迨 uni8FE8-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FEA 迪 uni8FEA-JP &uni8FEAuE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FEB 迫 uni8FEBuE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FF4 迴 uni8FF4-JP & uni8FF4-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FFA 迺 uni8FFA-JP & uni8FFAuE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+8FFD 追 uni8FFD-JP & uni8FFDuE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9002 适 uni9002-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9005 逅 uni9005-JP & uni9005-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9006 逆 uni9006-JP & uni9006uE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+900C 逌 uni900C-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+900E 逎 uni900E-JP & uni900EuE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9019 這 uni9019-JP & uni9019-JP90-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9020 造 uni9020uE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9025 逥 uni9025-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9027 逧 uni9027-JP & uni9027-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+902A 逪 uni902A-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+902D 逭 uni902D-JP & uni902D-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9032 進 uni9032-CN & uni9032uE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+903C 逼 uni903C-JP & uni903C-JP90-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9041 遁 uni9041-JP, uni9041-JP90-JP & uni9041uE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9052 遒 uni9052-JP & uni9052uE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9053 道 uni9053-JP & uni9053uE0101-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+905B 遛 uni905B-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9061 遡 uni9061-JP & uni9061-JP90-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9065 遥 uni9065-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9089 邉 uni9089-CN Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+9139 鄹 uni9139-TW Modify the final stroke of the right-most 人 component to curve outward
U+9EF9 黹 uni9EF9-CN Revert to pre-V2 glyph; and add HK mapping override for U+2FCB ⿋
U+9F28 鼨 uni9F28-TW Modify the final stroke of the upper-right component to curve outward
U+9FE9 鿩 uni9FE9-CN Change the upper-left component to be 魚
U+FA11 﨑 uniFA11-CN Adjust the 山 component to conform to CN conventions
U+FE15 ︕ uniFE15 Make the dot smaller (see Noto CJK Issue #91)
U+FE16 ︖ uniFE16 Compatibilize the dot of the ExtraLight and Heavy masters; and make the dot smaller (see Noto CJK Issue #91)
U+FF01 ! uniFF01 & uniFF01-CN Make the dot smaller (see Noto CJK Issue #91)
U+FF1F ? uniFF1F & uniFF1F-CN Compatibilize the dot of the ExtraLight and Heavy masters; and make the dot smaller (see Noto CJK Issue #91)
U+1F250 🉐 u1F250-JP The upper-right component of the Heavy glyph is missing two subpaths
U+202B7 𠊷 u202B7-HK Change the 攵 component to 夂
U+20C41 𠱁 u20C41-HK The final stroke of the 水 component should curve inward
U+212FE 𡋾 u212FE-HK The upper-left component should be 𠮠 (⿱口⿰丿𠃌)
U+21376 𡍶 u21376-HK Change the 攵 component to 夂
U+235CE 𣗎 u235CE-HK Fix the connection of the 入 component
U+236BA 𣚺 u236BA-HK Change the left component to 未
U+27C12 𧰒 u27C12-HK The upper-left component should be 士
U+28455 𨑕 u28455-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+2856B 𨕫 u2856B-JP Remove the "feet" from the bottom of the box-like element
U+29B0E 𩬎 u29B0E-HK The top stroke of the bottom component should be horizontal

kenlunde avatar Nov 19 '18 18:11 kenlunde

U+4EFD 份 - HK should use CN version, currently mapped to TW.

tamcy avatar Nov 20 '18 11:11 tamcy

Perhaps 首's feet in the KR 道 glyph should be removed for consistency? (Like how the KR 造 glyph was corrected in the 2.000 update.) image

lapomme avatar Nov 20 '18 12:11 lapomme

@tamcy Nice catch. Now reflected in Issues #202. @lapomme Now reflected in the table above.

kenlunde avatar Nov 20 '18 13:11 kenlunde

Perhaps 首's feet in the KR 道 glyph should be removed for consistency? (Like how the KR 造 glyph was corrected in the 2.000 update.) image

screen shot 2018-11-20 at 23 40 42 Also these hidden Kangxi-style glyphs. For this image, glyph 62875 as seen on Font Book on the Mac. So it should be uni9020uE0101-JP. Only the 口 feet, not 吿 (where the central vertical stroke goes over) as a whole, don't confuse this hidden glyph with the public KR version which has 告 (the central vertical stroke does not go over) and has no feet on 口.

So overall, maybe fix 62853 (uni8FEAuE0101-JP), 62854 (uni8FEBuE0101-JP), 62861 (uni8FFDuE0101-JP), 62867 (uni900EuE0101-JP), 62882 (uni9041uE0101-JP), 62891 (uni9052uE0101-JP) and 62892 (uni9053uE0101-JP, already mentioned), which have feet. Decide if you want more consistency to those hidden glyphs, some of them used as KR mappings.

Font Book only gave me glyph numbers (in the Repertoire section, hover and you see the glyph numbers, they are in order), but I checked the glyph numbers against the mapping file, for example, 造, which is correct on my end, so should be correct for everything else.

Marcus98T avatar Nov 20 '18 15:11 Marcus98T

There are many characters with "feet" remaining in the KR glyph where they are absent in the other versions, a few of them are: 迫、追、逭 (feet in CN glyph as well)、适、迪、這

It seems that the different versions are rather inconsistent with the "feet" in characters with the 辶 radical (I don't know if this is an intended design difference or not.) In order of which discards the feet the most: TW/HK > CN > JP > KR. E.g. for 逅 the feet is retained in all but TW/HK.

lapomme avatar Nov 21 '18 09:11 lapomme

u_009fe9 9FE9 for CN should be 魚 u_009fe9

u_009fa9 u_009fca 9FA9 and 9FCA for CN should be 艹 u_009fa9 u_009fca

u_009fb3 9FB3 for CN should be 八 u_009fb3

ref http://www.gb688.cn/bzgk/gb/newGbInfo?hcno=BCBF3BC7DCED3629F5E41CE02D9CFD55 page 112 screenshot from 2018-11-22 20-08-15

CNMan avatar Nov 22 '18 11:11 CNMan

@CNMan For U+9FE9, I would claim that Unicode's representative glyph should also be corrected, especially when checking the original proposal (L2/13-009). In particular, see the kaishu form on page 5 (page 6 of the PDF) that is ⿰魯爾.

For U+9FA9 龩, U+9FB3 龳, and U+9FCA 鿊, no action is necessary, because these are single-source (HK) ideographs. Although no action is necessary for a similar reason, you missed U+9FEA (KR). And yes, I am fully aware that some single-source ideographs have multiple region-specific glyphs. When push comes to shove, which was necessary for the Version 2.000 update, such glyphs are removed in order to make room for higher-priority glyphs.

Also, I'd like to point out that following standards such as GB/T 22321.1-2018 is not within the scope of the Source Han projects. I think of such standards as attempts to hammer square pegs into round holes, meaning that regional conventions are applied to ideographs that are not actually used in that particular region. It would be nice to do, but when dealing with a glyph set that is already full, practicality becomes necessary.

kenlunde avatar Nov 22 '18 15:11 kenlunde

For Source Han Sans Hong Kong, I noticed that the 胡 part of 鬍 is not consistent with other characters that have a 胡 component.

Here is an example of the difference between the 胡 part of 鬍 when contrasted with 胡 as a standalone character as well as other characters with a 胡 component: hong kong

In addition, it seems that the 鬍 character in Hong Kong's version of Source Han Sans may not conform with the "standard" found in 香港小學學習字詞表. I have attached a picture of the character 鬍 based on the online version of 香港小學學習字詞表 here: reference for hong kong

Finally... on this Thanksgiving Day in the USA, I wanted to take a moment and thank @kenlunde and everyone involved in the creation of Source Han Sans and Source Han Serif for bringing these fonts to life for the community!

pan-asian-wok avatar Nov 22 '18 23:11 pan-asian-wok

@pan-asian-wok Thank you, and you're welcome. Adding a new HK glyph for U+9B0D 鬍, uni9B0D-HK, is now noted in Issue #206.

BTW, I am using 香港電腦漢字參考字形 as the reference for HK glyphs. Its scope is the same as for the Source Han typefaces, specifically Big Five plus HKSCS-2016. The scope of 香港小學學習字詞表 is far more limited. In fact, I found an error in the former during Source Han Sans Version 2.000 development that I reported, which has been corrected, and is noted on its last page (page 1014).

kenlunde avatar Nov 23 '18 14:11 kenlunde

For Source Han Sans Hong Kong, I think the 系 of 遜 should have a hook. default

Reference: 香港電腦漢字參考字形 default default

And I think the 山 part of CN glyph for 﨑 should be unified. default

The size of dot in fullwidth ? and ! also should be unified. default

Buernia avatar Nov 24 '18 06:11 Buernia

@Buernia Adding a new HK glyph for U+905C 遜, uni905C-HK, is now noted in Issue #206. Adjusting the CN glyph for U+FA11 﨑, uniFA11-CN, is now noted in the table in this issue. The dot in the glyphs for U+FF1F ?, uniFF1F and uniFF1F-CN, and U+FE16 ︖, uniFE16, is not compatible in the ExtraLight and Heavy masters, which means that the ExtraLight and Heavy weights look okay, but the five intermediate weights have inconsistent or seemingly random weights. This is also now noted in the table in this issue.

kenlunde avatar Nov 24 '18 13:11 kenlunde

For HK glyph variant, according to my feeling (need further verification) For the 牙 component in characters like 韓 and 偉 and 雅, I don't think the upper horizontal stroke is supposed to extend beyond the slanted stroke? For characters like 實 or 貫, shouldn't it be two dots in the middle instead of a single straight line? For the character 低 I am not sure if it is the most common placement to place the dot below the character like this For characters like 警 or 權 or 獲 or 護 or 觀, the grass root above the character is different from other characters. For the character 曼 I suppose it should be the component of "sun" on top? For the character 棉 should it be a slant on top? For characters like 香 or 書 or 遭 or 會, the central line within the sun component is not connected on both sides, is that a design choice or? For the character 嶼 I don't think in the center part it is supposed to be a tilted dot instead a vertical line? For characters like 雷 or 霸 I think the rain component should be four dots toward same direction instead of toward center? For the character 入 and characters that include this component like 內 or 納, I am not sure if it is a good idea to represent its difference against the character/component of 人 this way. For the 王 component in characters like 徵, would it be better if those horizontal components are horizontal?

c933103 avatar Nov 24 '18 20:11 c933103

@c933103 Before dousing this issue with potentially meaningless comments, please first check against 香港電腦漢字參考字形.

And, after checking them all, I confirmed that none of your comments are actionable. Also, please don't post issues based on feelings. As I wrote above, please check the standard that is referenced in the previous paragraph. If you have an issue with that standard, take it up with the organization that is responsible for it, not with this project.

Apologies if I seem to be a bit harsh. I was in the midst of reading a new book entitled Zero Sum Game.

kenlunde avatar Nov 24 '18 20:11 kenlunde

For Source Han Sans Hong Kong, the middle 八 in radical ⿋ should be 丷. default

Reference: 香港電腦漢字參考字形 default default

And HK glyph 戠 should use CN version. default Reference: 香港電腦漢字參考字形 default

Buernia avatar Nov 25 '18 14:11 Buernia

@Buernia Nice catches. The appropriate changes are now reflected in the table in Issue #202 and Issue #206. Note that the U+9EF9 黹 glyph addition affects the mapping override for U+2FCB ⿋ in the HK CMap resource, which I reflected in Issue #202.

kenlunde avatar Nov 25 '18 14:11 kenlunde

@Marcus98T I am still thinking about this, hence the lack of a reply to you and to @lapomme.

I am also technically on vacation. 🥃

kenlunde avatar Nov 25 '18 15:11 kenlunde

default

@kenlunde I also think the CN glyph of ⿋ should be replaced by the future HK glyph. Below is the glyph in 通用规范汉字表 and GB 18030-2005.

default default

Buernia avatar Nov 25 '18 15:11 Buernia

@c933103 Congratulations, you have discovered that the standard forms as provided by EDB or provided in 香港電腦漢字參考字形 don't really match what many Hongkongers have learned since they were young. 🤷🏻‍♂️

May I suggest you contact 教育局課程發展處中國語文教育組 at the email [email protected] and/or Chinese Language Interface Advisory Committee (CLIAC) at [email protected] to complain about this issue.

hfhchan avatar Nov 25 '18 18:11 hfhchan

@Buernia You're quite right. Actually, the CN glyph for U+9EF9 黹, uni9EF9-CN, was modified for V2, and needs to be reverted to its pre-V2 form, and also used for HK. U+2FCB ⿋ needs similar treatment, in terms of its HK mapping override. These changes are now reflected in the tables of the appropriate issues.

kenlunde avatar Nov 25 '18 22:11 kenlunde

Codepoint Region Description
U+4E31 丱 CN/TW/HK The "└" component should be a single stroke for the 3 locales.
U+55D7 嗗 HK The 骨 component is incorrect. JP glyph can be used instead.
U+819A 膚 HK The 虍 component should look like the TW glyph and is different from the JP glyph.

20181126-c


Codepoint Region Description
U+5DDF 巟 HK The last stroke of 乚 is incorrect. Seems that a new glyph is needed.
U+614C 慌 HK Ditto

20181126-a

(謊 included for reference)


Codepoint Region Description
U+3C54 㱔 HK The 匕 component needs to be adjusted to conform to HK's standard.
U+451D 䔝 HK Ditto
U+585F 塟 HK Ditto

20181126-b

(此 and 死 included for reference)

tamcy avatar Nov 26 '18 10:11 tamcy

@Buernia Adding a new HK glyph for U+905C 遜, uni905C-HK, is now noted in Issue #206. Adjusting the CN glyph for U+FA11 﨑, uniFA11-CN, is now noted in the table in this issue. The dot in the glyphs for U+FF1F ?, uniFF1F and uniFF1F-CN, and U+FE16 ︖, uniFE16, is not compatible in the ExtraLight and Heavy masters, which means that the ExtraLight and Heavy weights look okay, but the five intermediate weights have inconsistent or seemingly random weights. This is also now noted in the table in this issue.

I thought the question mark was adjusted in response to this issue? It may sound ironic, but I actually like the change when I saw it. It's fine for ExtraLight and Heavy to have a larger dots (they're usually used in short text and meant to be catchy) but for Light, Regular, and Bold which are usually used in documents or long text I would like the dot to be less eye-catching (incidentally I also had the dots of the full-width glyphs shrinked in my fork. The original version looks a little bit too large). I was amazed when I see this interpolation magic, and even planned to suggest similar changes to the full-width exclamation mark (but didn't as I need some more time to experience with it).

tamcy avatar Nov 26 '18 13:11 tamcy

@tamcy Corrections for the CN glyph for U+4E31 丱 and the HK glyphs for U+3C54 㱔, U+451D 䔝, and U+585F 塟 are now reflected in the table at the beginning of this issue. Adding new HK glyphs for U+5DDF 巟, U+614C 慌, and U+819A 膚 is now reflected in the table at the beginning of Issue #206. And, adjusting the TW and HK mappings for U+55D7 嗗 is now reflected in the table at the beginning of Issue #202.

(Just FYI, I edited your post, to change "U+819A 丱" to "U+4E31 丱" in the first column of the first row of the first table.)

kenlunde avatar Nov 26 '18 20:11 kenlunde

As I pointed out some 26 HK glyphs that had errors in 2016, I checked the HC version 2.000 . Still 3 of them are not rectified. For U+235CE, I zoom the 入 for your reference, please. image

extc avatar Nov 27 '18 10:11 extc

@tamcy With regard to the glyphs for U+FF01 ! and U+FF1F ?, to include their vertical presentation forms, U+FE15 ︕ and U+FE16 ︖, I will ask our designer to make the dot smaller, though I thought that I did as part of the Version 2.000 update. This is independent of making the dot in the glyphs for U+FE16 ︖ and U+FF1F ? compatible between the ExtraLight and Heavy masters. See the table at the beginning of this issue.

@extc The corrections for the HK glyphs for U+212FE 𡋾, U+235CE 𣗎, and U+27C12 𧰒 are reflected in the table at the beginning of this issue.

kenlunde avatar Nov 27 '18 13:11 kenlunde

@Marcus98T & @lapomme I finally had time to deep-dive into the "foot" issue for ideographs that use Radical 162 (辶).

The following are the 17 affected glyphs, according to your list, and confirmed by me: uni9002-JP, uni9005-JP, uni9005-CN, uni900E-JP, uni9019-JP, uni902D-JP, uni902D-CN, uni9041-JP, uni9052-JP, uni8FEAuE0101-JP, uni8FEBuE0101-JP, uni8FFDuE0101-JP, uni900EuE0101-JP, uni9020uE0101-JP, uni9041uE0101-JP, uni9052uE0101-JP & uni9053uE0101-JP (and shown below in the same order).

ideographs-17

I think that you missed three Extension A ideographs and one Extension B ideograph: uni4894-CN, uni48AE-CN (uni48AE-HK, shown in green, is okay), uni48B0-CN & u28455-JP.

ideographs-5

kenlunde avatar Nov 27 '18 18:11 kenlunde

My preliminary list only concerned the hidden JP glyphs covered in the Adobe Japan 1-6, but anyway thanks for the acknowledgement and some more uncovering. Yeah some of them were duplicates of the JP glyph and I also have even more affected glyphs (via Wiktionary, JP is default unless otherwise stated): 迍, 迚, 迠, 迢, 迦(JP and CN), 迨, 迪(KR), 迫(KR), 迴, 迺, 追(KR), 逆(JP and KR), 逌, 逥(CN), 逧(JP and CN), 逪, 進(KR), 逼, 遛, 遡, 遥 and 𨕫.

In Source Han Sans CN, the left feet is retained in 迵, 過, 適, 遹 but removed in 迥, 逈, 週, 避 (whereas the JP/KR ones are retained). The feet is here in 邉 whereas the JP/KR ones are removed.

TW/HK 週 might need to remove the left feet?

Makes me wonder if we have to remove all the feet for 口, 凵 and 𠃊 for the rest of all the glyphs, which obviously would take a long time to fix.

Another side note, there is 込 with a hidden 2 drops version, maybe assign it to the KR mapping.

EDIT: @kenlunde OK. I have finished updating this list. The hole is already very deep and this is the final list.

Marcus98T avatar Nov 27 '18 18:11 Marcus98T

@Marcus98T The more one continues to dig, the deeper the hole will become. As a result, I am extremely reluctant to to pursue this.

kenlunde avatar Nov 27 '18 18:11 kenlunde

My apologies for double posting, but I have finally finished the list and I want to sleep. No more digging for the late night.

I think if you are reluctant to pursue further, then maybe reinstate the feet in the JP/KR versions and remove the feet in the CN/TW/HK versions. Otherwise this definitive list is to correct the feet in the 辶 radical.

Marcus98T avatar Nov 27 '18 19:11 Marcus98T

@Marcus98T I'll take another stab at this later today.

kenlunde avatar Nov 27 '18 19:11 kenlunde

@Marcus98T @kenlunde Sorry to chime in. I didn't join the discussion because I'm not particularly interested in this matter so I can't provide any valuable input. Having noticed that this may open a can of worms, I would like to suggest to inspect the affected glyphs more thoroughly before taking action too early.

Firstly, I'm not sure if removing the feet of 逆 (at least for JP/KR) is a good idea as that 凵 is far away from the bottom stroke that supports it. Yes, there isn't any foot in CN and TW's 逆, but check 縌 (U+78C0) and 磀 (U+7E0C). The feet are there.

This is similar to 過. There is a "left foot" on the 口 of 過 because the left side is relatively empty and the bottom of the 口 is still far away from the flat ㇏. The bottom-right foot is removed because it is occupied by the hook. So, if the left foot of 週 from the TW & HK glyph is to be removed, how about other glyphs like U+35FB 㗻 (CN/TW), U+3C05 㰅 (CN), U+4664 䙤 (CN), U+48AA 䢪 (CN)?

I can also spot characters that are not mentioned, e.g. 簉 (U+7C09 JP & KR).

Finally, the fate of certain types of "feet" have not been discussed: 20181128-a

Unless removing every foot of this kind is the ultimate goal of this project, getting rid of them prematurely may do harm more than good. Instead you may consider listing the possible scenarios (造遙 and 迥逆 can be treated differently), the glyphs concerned, and the action to be taken in the JP/KR group and CN/TW/HK group (the 辶廴 aren't shared anyway so the foot retaining rule could be different, e.g. retain the feet of 逆 for JP/KR but left out from CN/TW/HK; remove feet of 造 for all regions).

tamcy avatar Nov 28 '18 04:11 tamcy