Fluent-Search
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adirh3
Listary-style pop-up file tree menu
Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.
The problem is accessing files and folders in the most efficient way even within file dialogs and other programs
Describe the solution you'd like
Listary has a pop-up menu accessible with a middle-click in any program. It has lots of options, including lists of favorite folders, recently opened folders and files, currently open folders, and a set of commands. I'd like something like this built into Fluent Search, customizable, and when one of these folders is selected in a file save/open dialog, clicking it in this menu switches the dialog to that folder. The exact structure and commands available can be discussed, but that's the basic functionality. It is a very fast way to get to a specific folder without having to remember the folder name.
Describe alternatives you've considered
I still use Listary for this one feature! And also Listary integrates with Directory Opus, which is very nice.
Additional context
Below are some screenshots.
@cobblepot1 sorry if I misunderstood, but have you tried Fluent Search's Quick Menu?
You can invoke it using mouse gesture as well, configured in Settings -> Quick Menu -> Mouse trigger.
You can pin any results (including folders) and access them in a similar manner to your suggestion.
Thanks, I was not aware of the Quick Menu (QM). I looked at it and it is similar to what I want but it isn't as functional for my purposes for several reasons. Part of the reason is that QM is conceived as a quick search menu, but what I want is more like a quick pop-up custom navigation menu without search. If I want to search, I'll hit the Fluent Search keyboard shortcut. I don't really see the purpose of the QM as currently designed, actually. The pop-up menu serves a different purpose—not search, but quick navigation to a place I already know. Maybe some changes can be made?
- I previously wrote that the middle-click brings up the Listary menu (LM) in any program, but that's wrong in an important way: it brings up the menu only in contexts where a folder needs to be selected. That leaves the middle-click free in other programs for other functions. This feature is very convenient since a mouse middle button double-click is not as comfortable.
- Setting up the menu is best done not with pinning folders, but with a dialog that lets users add folders and section dividers and use buttons to sort or manually organize them.
- The QM makes it very hard to properly sort pinned items up and down. When I tried, usually the item is put into a folder with other items rather than just moving up and down.
- I don't understand why there are programs on the QM. I want to be able to define what is and what isn't on the menu. I just want files and folders on it. Excluding items one-by-one won't work because I don't want to have to exclude every program on my computer manually.
- I don't understand the darker section below the line on the QM. How are these programs different than the programs above? In your image, there is 'YouTube Music' listed twice. I'm sure that there is an explanation for why it appears twice, but it's not clear to me as a user what the sections are for.
- The 'Add Here' link in the upper-right of the LM is very useful.
- I like a lot of items on my LM, and the QM font and spacing is too large to fit enough items on it.
- There should be a button or link on the QM that takes the user directly to the QM settings without having to navigate through the Fluent Search window.
Thanks for considering!
@cobblepot1 thanks a lot for the feedback, much appreciated! I believe I understood it all and will work toward simplifying the UX of the QM.
To answer some of your questions - first of all the QM was built for easy access of Fluent Search features using the mouse, compared to the normal search window which oriented toward keyboard usage. The search is there just in case it was needed and to reduce overhead of switching to the search window.
The upper section of the Quick Menu is just items from the home screen, so the programs are pinned results. The lower section is for results recommendation related to the window you currently have in focus.
To customize it - you simply need to search for any results and pin it using the little pin icon or by pressing Alt+P, folders will be expandable so you can peek inside them. I thought about adding some kind of "setup" for pinning results as you suggested, but unlike Listary, Fluent Search is not only about files/folders. You can pin there any kind of result (bookmarks, history, apps, etc.), the only way to pick these kind of things is to search for them. Putting a dialog specifically for files and folders would make the experience even more confusing IMO. Either way I totally agree with you that adding items to QM is not intuitive, and I am open for suggestions.
Thanks for the response and your openness to feedback!
First, you should decide whether it is important for you to keep QM focused on its original intentions (easy access to FS with the mouse) or whether you are open to changing it to better meet the needs I suggested, which are not currently met with the FS/QM window. That will guide your decisions.
If the main purpose of QM is to activate FS with the mouse, then I must ask whether it makes sense to have a separate interface—why not just have a setting to activate the normal FS with the mouse via L+R click or double middle click? I don't see activating QM as having any more or less overhead than activating FS.
Another question is, if the user needs to type to search for something in QM anyway, then is there really any advantage to bringing up QM with a mouse click? If QM is for accessing things with the mouse instead of keyboard, then it can do that without a search box that requires typing. Now, you might say that users need the search box for adding things to the QM menu, but there are other possible ways to do it that doesn't show the search box all of the time, such as an 'add to menu' item on QM that would bring up a search box, or 'add to QM' action in FS results, or adding to the QM settings tab a place to add and organize the QM.
To make using QM and adding items more intuitive, perhaps you could add a clickable question-mark button that brings up a window briefly explaining the interface.
You seem to have summarized my comments as asking for a simpler UX for QM, perhaps thinking that the main issue is that users don't know how to use QM, but that's really only part of it. More important to me is adding functionality that is not currently in QM or making other changes.
You said that creating a dialog just for files and folders would make the experience even more confusing. I'm not 100% sure what you mean but I think you are saying that it would confuse the user if they could search in QM but the results included only files and folders rather than also programs, history, etc. That's true if QM remains a search-focused menu, but perhaps my comments here have changed your mind about that needing to be the case.
Another way to think about whether QM must include search is comparing FS to programs that have actions that users can access with the normal menu bar that has drop-down menus vs. a control panel that lets you search for actions by typing characters showing matches in a list below. VS Code allows both. FS/QM is like the control panel approach, and sometimes that is what users want, but they also sometimes want to click around a pre-populated menu like the Listary menu. You are right that Listary is more limited than FS but that doesn't mean that FS can't have an alternative approach also, with FS being the control panel/search and QM being the mouse-navigated customizable menu without search. (I know it's called Fluent Search but it already has many functions not directly related to just text search!)
As far as a 'setup' for pinning results, I don't think it would be more complex for the user to have one, but if the functions needed were provided on the QM menu itself (such as manual sorting of pinned items), it's not a big deal.
I would like the option to not show results recommendations related to the app in the lower section.
A few other things I mentioned that you didn't discuss:
- smaller or customizable size for QM items (this is also so I can see more of the text of folder names, currently very little is shown)
- link on QM menu to take the user directly to QM settings
- let users manually sort items in menu
- allow diving the menu into sections with lines that can be moved
Let me know what you think.
@cobblepot1 thanks again for the feedback! Answers + questions -
If the main purpose of QM is to activate FS with the mouse, then I must ask whether it makes sense to have a separate interface
This is due to the search window not optimized for mouse usage, it's built for quick navigation using the keyboard by searching. For example, peeking inside a folder would require to search for it and then pressing TAB to search inside it.
The QM window show a relatively condensed list of items that you can peek inside without clicking. It was built to be like a context menu, the search part of it is not the point of it in any way.
Another question is, if the user needs to type to search for something in QM anyway, then is there really any advantage to bringing up QM with a mouse click?
If the user needs to search for something they should open the search window, that's how I look at it. The reason the search box stayed in the QM is because I got as feedback that it's nice to have in cases you opened the QM thinking you have something there already, but it's not.
You said that creating a dialog just for files and folders would make the experience even more confusing. I'm not 100% sure what you mean but I think you are saying that it would confuse the user if they could search in QM but the results included only files and folders rather than also programs, history, etc.
As I mentioned in the comment before I totally agree with you that the procedure is not intuitive; What I meant by dialog is that if there was some kind of editor for the QM items, in case only files/folders were available you would expect to pick them using a file dialog. But in Fluent Search it could be counter intuitive because some results are not bound by files, and can be found only by searching.
That's true if QM remains a search-focused menu, but perhaps my comments here have changed your mind about that needing to be the case.
To make things super clear - the QM is not oriented towards searching, as I mentioned above I considered removing the search box multiple times and still considering it. The QM was created to provide access to all Fluent Search features in a context menu like experience that is easy to use with the mouse.
click around a pre-populated menu like the Listary menu.
What do you mean by pre-populated menu? I am trying to figure out the deltas between the current QM and you vision (excluding UX setup/UI stuff). Did you expect FS to automatically populate folders in the QM in your first usage? (compared to Programs which are auto populated)
with FS being the control panel/search and QM being the mouse-navigated customizable menu without search
I need to understand, other than the search part, is the QM not up for "mouse-navigated customizable menu"? You think that removing search in QM would help to better seperate it from the normal search? is it because it's confusing as it's now?
As far as a 'setup' for pinning results, I don't think it would be more complex for the user to have one, but if the functions needed were provided on the QM menu itself (such as manual sorting of pinned items), it's not a big deal.
That's for sure, implementing it proved to be quite challenging, but I will be definitely be doing that over time. I only mentioned that the interface would be search based, as that's how you pick results in Fluent Search.
I would like the option to not show results recommendations related to the app in the lower section.
Will add that.
smaller or customizable size for QM items (this is also so I can see more of the text of folder names, currently very little is shown)
I am considering adding option to control the density of content across the entire app, would that also work? or you think it should be QM specific?
link on QM menu to take the user directly to QM settings
Will add that as well, probably via right click as I aim for clean interface across all Fluent Search windows.
let users manually sort items in menu
That should be already possible, albeit not the best experience.
allow diving the menu into sections with lines that can be moved
That kind of customization is not planned ATM, I will get to it after I feel like I nailed down the concept and basic UX.
Thanks for offering to add several functions I mentioned. It sounds like we agree that QM is not for search, but for navigation with mouse and without keyboard.
If the user needs to search for something they should open the search window, that's how I look at it. The reason the search box stayed in the QM is because I got as feedback that it's nice to have in cases you opened the QM thinking you have something there already, but it's not.
We agree that QM isn't for search. I understand the feedback, but I disagree. If you want to keep search due to the feedback that some people want to use QM for a non-intended purpose, perhaps move the search box to the bottom of the QM, since the top slot is the most prominent and easy-to-access spot.
As I mentioned in the comment before I totally agree with you that the procedure is not intuitive; What I meant by dialog is that if there was some kind of editor for the QM items, in case only files/folders were available you would expect to pick them using a file dialog. But in Fluent Search it could be counter intuitive because some results are not bound by files, and can be found only by searching.
I think there is a way to satisfy both instincts: let people pin items to QM with a right-click on any search result, but also have a window in settings that lets people add files and folders to QM with an 'add to menu' button, and in that window people can also sort any items.
click around a pre-populated menu like the Listary menu.
What do you mean by pre-populated menu?
I just mean a menu that shows items immediately even if there is no search box or list of search results. QM has that currently.
I need to understand, other than the search part, is the QM not up for "mouse-navigated customizable menu"? You think that removing search in QM would help to better seperate it from the normal search? is it because it's confusing as it's now?
Yes, exactly, now it seems like QM is another type of search menu, mostly because the search is the top item in the menu. I'd actually like all of the appearance settings to be changeable for QM separately for FS (and there could be a setting or default that any setting will be the same as FS unless the user changes it). One thing is that on 'Classic' color scheme, it is very hard for me to see the small highlight for the item in QM under the mouse. Can that color be changed manually?
smaller or customizable size for QM items (this is also so I can see more of the text of folder names, currently very little is shown)
I am considering adding option to control the density of content across the entire app, would that also work? or you think it should be QM specific?
I think it should be QM specific, since QM has a related but different purpose from FS. It is more important in QM, e.g., to show long text strings than it is in FS.
let users manually sort items in menu
That should be already possible, albeit not the best experience.
I tried but it doesn't work for me. Sometimes when I try to sort items, it create a new folder with multiple items in it. Usually manual sort shows a line where the dragged item will be moved, and I should be able to sort items up and down. Does it work for you?
@cobblepot1 thanks a lot for the feedback! I pushed a few of your suggestions to the latest nightly build (1.0.0.15), if you can check it out and let me know what you think it would be great! Note that I haven't gotten to implement everything we talked about (e.g. middle mouse click, custom density).
Hi, the drag and drop organization still is not working for me (which is one reason I recommended a dedicated sorting interface in the settings). Since this is an essential feature, let me focus on just this for now. Items dragged into and out of folders and items dragged to different list positions do not move or appear as expected, often being put into folders I didn't intend for them to go into. Rather than trying to display a visual preview of the newly sorted list, I strongly recommend using a line to indicate where the dragged item would be dropped if dropped at the root list level and show the folder menu if the item is going to be put into a folder when dropped. I asked if moving items worked well for you; have you tried it recently?
So my suggestion is that when you drag an item, if it is going to be dropped in the root/first QM level, there should be a line indicating which existing items it will be put over or under, and if you hover over a current folder, the folder is highlighted and the folder menu appears and the 'drop' line is put in a menu.
One problem is that I think the method for creating a new folder is to drag one item onto another item, which creates a folder and new menu on drop, which is really not intuitive. Users shouldn't be creating a folder unintentionally or without some indicator that dropping will create a new folder and folder menu with multiple items. If you want to avoid a settings dialog with clear buttons for creating folders, creating items, moving things up and down, etc., then the drag and drop must work really clearly and smoothly. Thanks!
I've tried to switch from Listary to Fluent Search QM and the sorting problems are stopping me. I suggest you use Windows' File Explorer as a model. Try sorting items in the Quick Access menu. The 'drop' indicator switches from a line to highlighting the folder to show where it will drop. There is a tooltip clarifying what will happen when you release the button. It is super-clear how sorting will work. If you can replicate that, you probably don't need a separate window in QM Settings for sorting.