Wack0
DirectX9 Support
I would like to humbly request the inclusion of directX9 support
I believe that with the usage of softwindows32 and directX9 support we could theoretically get UNDERTALE, and other similarly coded apps running on the nintendo wii. Also considering that dirextX9 DOES have official support for windows NT.
I am not trying to be forceful, i respect your work, and I think directX9 would be pretty cool.
it's something I looked into before, it's definitely possible, just been unmotivated recently...
[...] definitely possible, just been unmotivated recently...
Understandable. I also figured as much based on the inactivity... We are all just human, afterall, and we burn out. Honestly it's beyond amazing this project even reached anywhere near as far as it did. So major props to you for that.
Maybe you'll revisit this someday (and PPC Mac NT), maybe not... who knows. Definitely no need to worry about it.
But personally, if one day you get to have your interest sparkled / rekindled on getting Mac OS 9.2.2 to natively boot on the Wii/GC/Wii U, that'd be something I'd love to learn about! If the day ever comes, that is, of course. No pressure. Dedicate time only to things that really matter to you.
Until then, enjoy and take care!
I think at that point the limiting factor won't be DirectX support but the fact that this is running Windows NT 4.0.. Games even back then warned about Windows NT 4.0 not being ideal for running games, and I'm sure this hasn't really improved much. I imagine there's gonna be calls to system functions that simply didn't exist in NT 4.0 and all this stuff would probably need to be custom made for PowerPC
I think at that point the limiting factor won't be DirectX support but the fact that this is running Windows NT 4.0.. Games even back then warned about Windows NT 4.0 not being ideal for running games, and I'm sure this hasn't really improved much. I imagine there's gonna be calls to system functions that simply didn't exist in NT 4.0 and all this stuff would probably need to be custom made for PowerPC
already happens with some DX8-era games that need various patches
next level it's direct PPC build from XP sources 👯♂️
Maybe if nothing else some parts of the XP OS could be rebuilt for PPC on VC++4.1 (4.0a), like later versions of DirectX? Imagine native PPC DirectX 8!
I think at that point the limiting factor won't be DirectX support but the fact that this is running Windows NT 4.0.. Games even back then warned about Windows NT 4.0 not being ideal for running games, and I'm sure this hasn't really improved much. I imagine there's gonna be calls to system functions that simply didn't exist in NT 4.0 and all this stuff would probably need to be custom made for PowerPC
already happens with some DX8-era games that need various patches
Maybe some other XP bits and pieces could be recompiled for NT4 SP2, as well? E.g. enough to get DirectX8 going etc..
I'm pretty sure XP has next to no source code for PPC, because PPC didn't even get all NT4 service packs, so i'm almost sure that anything PPC specific has been cut as well. Not to mention the legality issue of using the XP source code... Even if you were able to get it going you're still using illegally obtained source code, so spreading any of the results carries a major risk.
And at that point you're putting in so much effort into getting something going that probably won't improve game support. Like even mid to late 90s games just don't run on NT and warn against it. You're also dealing with software emulation of x86 which sure as hell isn't perfect and will likely cause further issues with getting newer software going, especially instruction set limitations.
@Eeveelution Actually the code itself doesn't care whether things are PPC, x86 or not, that is precisely the reason we use languages like C and not, say, assembly, which is CPU-specific. All it takes is mere recompilation, as long as there is no inline assembly (and if there is, this can be dealt with, as well). Sometimes there is some ironing out to do, especially endianness, but NT PPC already runs in native little endian, so no issue there. Might need some tinkering to get things compiling on VC++ IDE version 4.1 (AKA 4.0a), but that's about it.
It would also definitively improve game support. Not any silver bullet, mind you, but it would really help.
About the legality of it all, it's not as black-and-white as you might perhaps be thinking: for example, it depends on what country you are in. It also depends whether or not you just straight up recompile and redistribute the code, or if e.g. you write something new entirely from scratch that is 100% original code, which is facilitated by, but in no way copied from, existing code. Think WINE and ReactOS.
I just had a realization regarding the XP sources:
One thing is newer DirectX. But what about something (potentially) far simpler and far more helpful? USB drivers code port/rework! And audio ones! And even the .NET 1.1 runtime / CLR, to run .NET code on NT PPC (and even Win CE PPC I guess). Having .NET 1.1 would be MASSIVE, that's an NT4 SP6a feature right there. There's even IE 6.0 SP1 source, but that would make more sense once network stacks are also working on both Nintendo PPC and Mac PPC.
This also reminds me, is there any Java support, even if it's just 1.0 or 1.1, in PPC NT4 SP2?
@donotsdubba
you write something new entirely from scratch that is 100% original code, which is facilitated by, but in no way copied from, existing code. Think WINE and ReactOS.
That's not what you and them are suggesting though. Y'all are saying we should recompile XP source code. And at this point unless you're in a country that doesn't care about copyright law, it's very much black and white. Just cuz it's still on GitHub in many repos doesn't make it more legal to use. If you wanna do this clean room then you aren't even allowed to look at the source code of XP at all.
It would also definitively improve game support. Not any silver bullet, mind you, but it would really help.
I'd love to be proven wrong but I just simply don't believe it's gonna get many games going at all.
There's even IE 6.0 SP1 source, but that would make more sense once network stacks are also working on both Nintendo PPC and Mac PPC.
Which we can't use because it's leaked source code. You can't use leaked source code. I don't know about you but I don't think Wack0 or anyone here wants to fuck around with Microsoft, especially as this isn't some no-name project that is getting no attention. Multiple news outlets are covering what is being done here..
I'm pretty sure XP has next to no source code for PPC,
yep but xp still has some axp64 files :)
w2000 have ppc in ke
so you maybe can try to merge it to this open nt4.5
or try to build w2000 but replace missed with available nt4 files
@Eeveelution
That's not what you and them are suggesting though.
It is what I'm suggesting. More precisely, it is THE one thing I suggest for those who have legal concerns in mind. (But for those that don't, then it becomes not the suggestion, but a suggestion, nonetheless.)
Y'all are saying we should recompile XP source code.
Just to be very clear: I never said that, "should" is a term I never used for this, nor any synonym to it, as it implies me giving a recommendation. I never recommended this. But I have certainly pointed out that it can be done and considered, because it literally can. It's just a statement of fact, nothing more. Can =/= Should.
I have also pointed out it is not as black-and-white as you clearly do think it is: your notions about "even looking at source code" and other legal views/concerns are very US-centric, maybe even Euro-centric, or centric to laws of regions that are comparable to them from a legal perspective. However, the world and its laws across various countries are much bigger than just those. Copyright law can vary greatly from country to country, although it's true that in most places it's also not something you want to take for granted nor lightly.
Legal views from one place should not be pushed, shoved nor encouraged outside the places they are applicable in, because, precisely, they do not apply. This is especially important to keep in mind, as what is "legal and illegal" is not synonymous with "right and wrong", so something illegal somewhere being legal somewhere else is NOT a point of contention. Keep in mind that e.g. using custom firmware is (seemingly) illegal in Japan, yet you don't seem to have a problem with it, which you definitely shouldn't if you don't live in Japan (and even if you do, you can still very well disagree, but also deal with what comes from that). But that doesn't mean the rest of the world should be bogged down because of Japan's arbitrary lawmaking. Same goes for everywhere else. But I'm not here to debate any of that, so I will leave this subtopic at that.
If people want to recompile XP source code, that's excellent. If people don't want to recompile XP source code, that's also perfectly fine. I, too, agree the latter would be even better, because with 100% original source code, a lot more people can join in on the fun without being concerned over legal matters that certainly do apply across various nations.
I hope that clears it up. The key point here is more nuance, less generalizations/projections.