ValveSoftware
[TF2] Revert Request Thermal Thruster Stomp Bug Fix
Regarding the stomp removal bug https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/1490, it seems the community’s reaction to the fix has been quite mixed. It might be worth considering reverting it, or at least re-evaluating the idea — since there are valid arguments for why this “bug” might actually have a positive impact on the game and relatively harmless overall.
The author’s intention is understandable, but it seems to target something harmless and even beneficial, while the actual goal was to fix a completely different bug (the Medic stomp).
The Thermal Thruster bug has an additional hidden features:
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It increases knockback from all sources of damage (which can make mobility and positioning more engaging).
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It also amplifies effects such as direct-hit minicrits, creating a natural risk–reward dynamic.
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Additionally, it causes a persistent looping sound that follows the player and reveals their position, which can be considered a significant drawback too.
Despite being a bug, It actually feels quite balanced on its own and comes with several drawbacks that effectively act as built-in penalties for using it
Adding stomp-related attributes to the Detonator, however, would be a major balance change. Perhaps increased knockback could serve as a more elegant alternative solution for the Detonator, but that's just my speculation without deeply thinking into it.
And if the goal is to completely remove the Thermal Thruster bug, the remaining infinite sound loop issue also needs to be addressed separately.
This message is simply meant as constructive feedback from a long-time player who appreciates the depth and experimentation within TF2’s mechanics.
There is something to be said for bugs that can be kept in because they are harmless and silly, i.e., trimping is fun and A-posing doesn't hurt anyone. This bug is not anywhere near that, though. I know TF2 players appreciate the depth of gameplay rather than press Shift to rocket jump, but there's also a limit to these kinds of things that you should include.
One of the most subtle balance decisions in TF2 is to have any kind of passive effect be clearly visible on the player. Wearable weapons such as the Demoman shields or the Soldier boots (as well as the Mantreads' noise when you can actually stomp). Any self-heal, or even healing from the Crusader's Crossbow, is clearly indicated with the same icon as the default health bar on top of the player. A weapons like the Amputator must be held out actively so players can see that you get this extra regeneration.
The Thermal Thruster itself has clear indications, but as with #7352 having to guess if a player is going to (or in this case, already has) performed a bug to gain attributes they shouldn't have. These drawbacks are thus also not obvious, and the Direct Hit/Reserve Shooter Mini-Crits are the only real downside (and only one of those is realistic to find in a game). Against 8/9 classes in the game it means the only 'drawback' you have is just the extra knockback which is more of an advantage because it means you can surf damage much easier. You also don't just gain the stomping, but reduced fall damage as well.
That's disappointing, I would have hoped Valve would know better than to listen to nonsense requests like this.
remember kids, fixing bugs? frowned upon, actually! if enough people make a stink about your bug fix, it'll get reverted!
the only way i see this getting re-reverted (as in, re-implementing the fix) is if some better way of fixing the underlying bug is found.
this patch has also had the ripples of implications for whatever MVM update valve is working on, that any "controversial" fixes will just get undone within a week of the update going live because some people didn't like the changes.
Copying from the reply on the original commit:
I think the intent was that touching the ground removes rocketpack in the same way it removes blast jump, parachute, and other similar states, just that the rocketpack-specific check was necessary to include as there was one case where you could touch the ground during a launch, in which case you needed to keep rocketpack until after the launch completed. If that special case weren't in place at all, then the cond removal would simply be alongside the removal of e.g. TF_COND_PARACHUTE_ACTIVE without any extra handling (which is handled by the
elsecase with this change).That said, it's kind of weird that the rocketpack_landed event handling and sound handling happen here instead of elsewhere like blast jump handling. It's generally strange that rocketpack handling isn't almost identical to blast jump handling in every way, tbh.
Also, permanently getting this buff as a Quick-fix Medic doesn't seem right by any measure.
It's possible that the bug can be handled by removing rocketpack condition when WeaponReset() is called on the rocketpack or other Pyro secondaries, but the Medic behavior will still be an issue with that kind of fix.
Honestly, I don't think this game will see any more weapon balance changes just because Valve is afraid of controversial changes 😕
I don't think this should become a discussion thread for TF2 and the handling of bug fixes (though I do think that the controversy for a balance change would be way too big just because of how bitter a lot of the actively-participating TF2 community has become), but I do think that a bug fix like this is something worth keeping: it gives an objective advantage to the exploiter and there isn't really a way to tell aside from a bugged-sounding noise. There are often times where the Payload cart's sound will continuously play on a map like Hightower, these kinds of bugs are likely expected by players at this point due to lag. There is no way to know about this technique aside from external sources, and the only 'indicator' is an annoying bugged sound that players will more likely get frustrated by than actually think 'oh they must have the attributes from the Thermal Thruster despite having no Thermal Thruster'.
A-posing doesn't hurt anyone
They do, as your hitbox no longer matches with your model when crouching, which is a bug, I assume needs fixing.
They do, as your hitbox no longer matches with your model when crouching
I think you clearly know what I was referring to, though, and this just sounds like bad faith.
https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/75d7cfce-8f05-4574-a8c2-2ccd88853be2
works
Revert re-tested on the latest October 30, 2025 build (10195385)
See video:
The bug should be kept as-is. If this bug gets fixed and removed again, it's like going down the slippery slope and eventually "fixing" Soldiers being able to jump high using the Rocket Launcher by removing the Soldier's ability to rocket jump, since rocket jumping itself was originally an exploit/bug/however you want to interpret it that turned into a game feature.
it's like going down the slippery slope and eventually "fixing" Soldiers being able to jump high using the Rocket Launcher by removing the Soldier's ability to rocket jump, since rocket jumping itself was originally an exploit/bug/however you want to interpret it that turned into a game feature.
This is a ridiculous false equivalence and you know it. Unintended yet arguably intutive interactions between different game mechanics, such as rocket jumping and demo trimping, are not the same as an explicit oversight in the code that allows you to perform a series of obscure, unintuitive steps to turn a temporary buff into a permanent one.
"fixing" Soldiers being able to jump high using the Rocket Launcher by removing the Soldier's ability to rocket jump
The Rocket Jumper has been in the game since 2010. This isn't like the Righteous Bison "fix" either, since rocket jumping was featured in an old trailer for the game and movement is a major factor in how TF2 plays. Valve would Never consider "fixing" rocket jumping.
With that being said, I am not against this playstyle for Pyro existing. I'm just not a huge fan of competitive melee-style "obscure tech that you could only know through hearing about it from someone else and wasn't even intentional to begin with"
This is a ridiculous false equivalence and you know it.
Yep, I apologize.
The fallacious argument aside, the main problem with fixing the jetpack bug is that some Pyro players have gotten used to using this exploit for years, so we really don't know how to solve it.
The only way Valve can tackle this is to introduce some sort of balance change and fixing the bug itself to make everyone happy. Not sure how this can be done itself. If I recall correctly, the Tide Turner was created after the charge turn exploit for the other shields was mostly fixed by Valve back then to quell the complaints from Demoknight players. Perhaps something similar to this might work.
At the very least, the most productive thing that came out from this whole debate is that Valve still listens to player's complaints. If there's anything we're unhappy about the game, we should make valid complaints.
This is a ridiculous false equivalence and you know it.
Yep, I apologize.
Very good!
The only way Valve can tackle this is to introduce some sort of balance change and fixing the bug itself to make everyone happy. Not sure how this can be done itself. If I recall correctly, the Tide Turner was created after the charge turn exploit for the other shields was mostly fixed by Valve back then to quell the complaints from Demoknight players. Perhaps something similar to this might work.
At the very least, the most productive thing that came out from this whole debate is that Valve still listens to player's complaints. If there's anything we're unhappy about the game, we should make valid complaints.
For one, let's make sure no one gets harassed over what happened. Two, I currently don't have faith in valve to add any more weapons to the game, that would result in a fix that would please everyone. (Expecting someone wanting an ability to still stomp as medic basically.) Three, this maybe should have been patched all the way back in jungle inferno, but what happened as happened.
Personally I think the best method to go about this would be to patch out the bug and then in addition have a weapon balance to peserve the fun and spirit of stomp pyro, possibly as an additional feature to flare/detonator jumping (like how they added the target-matching run speed for mediguns or the airblast for flame throwers)
this is a bug and has always been a bug. it is not a feature. The bug fix shouldn't have been reverted.
So TF2 fixes slowly change into what Minecraft experiences, where old bugs become features. Imo the bug should be patched again, but make the stomp a new passive for the Pyro. Pyro using enemy projectiles, the jetpack, or the Detonator to blast jump, or just simple falling on an enemy sounds more interesting than just holding m1 and pressing m2 from time to time. Of course this a balance change, so Valve must decide if almost a decade is long enough to again add gameplay changes to the game.
To be honest, this bug has existed for a long time ago so players have already adapted to this bug. At this point, just let it go and make the bug stay and fix the looping sound instead, as that one personally annoys me.
i will note that i see many people claiming that this is a well-known trick, some even implying that practically everyone knows how to do it, but this sounds like a very bizarre claim to me
i personally didnt even know that this bug existed until a few days ago (i generally don't watch tf2 youtube content)
i can't even recall a single time i've died to the pyro's stomp (even without using the bug) or have even seen someone die to it (and i can recall the many many times ive died to the soldier's stomp)
i personally prefer keeping this bug in the game, but i think people are wildly misrepresenting the amount of people actually affected by this
People comparing this to rocket jumping or Market Garden bhopping are making a huge false equivalence. There is no currently-in-game equivalent to this, possibly excepting a-posing for which no good-faith argument can be made to argue it provides any tactical advantage. To suggest it's acceptable to keep a bug where a player can perform a series of nonsense steps to gain a passive buff from a weapon they don't even have equipped anymore and that has no visual tells for their opponent is ludicrous. This should never have been reverted.
If people feel that these buffs should be on the Scorch Shot and Detonator, the proper path to that is a properly-implemented balance change to those weapons, and a balance change becomes less likely to happen if even very obvious bugfixes are met with ridiculous backlash from people who liked the bug.
this is a bug and has always been a bug. it is not a feature. The bug fix shouldn't have been reverted.
Go take your NO FUN ALLOWED sign and burn it.
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Purely anecdotal, but I am one of the few who made active use of this bug. I personally have played with this for at least 3 years, and in the likely thousands of games I have played with it enabled, the only complaint I can recall having received from anyone in relation to it is from a single teammate who found the noise annoying. From the conversations regarding this bug I've seen outside this thread, many people seem either to not know of its existence at all or to not care about whether it stays or goes. In my mind, the fact that this bug has existed untouched since Jungle Inferno despite having been frequently showcased in many videos by popular Pyro players goes to show how generally inconsequential the existence of this is to the general player base. This bug has never been secret knowledge. Exploit video makers have showcased it, Pyro video makers have made liberal use of it, and any player curious or attentive enough would have been able to learn about it should they have encountered it in a match. It's not "well-known" per-se, but it's also not like it was being gatekept. Most people simply do not seem to care.
I don't think this fix impacted anyone other than a very small subset of dedicated Pyro players who had 8 years of experimentation and gameplay innovation completely disappear. The suggestion of simply adding the stomping passive to the Detonator is something I'd personally be fine with, although it of course still wouldn't offer the same opportunities and combo diversity that the bug currently does. However it feels redundant to point out that this would be a balance change, and by that token I don't expect it to happen. I am fine with this bug being reverted, and it is surprising to me that there is a staunch opposition to its re-implementation.
Even if the impact in game is pretty hard to take advantage of, this is still a pretty big bug in how the game handles weapon stats between loadouts. If there a case for pyro being able to use stomps without the thermal thruster equipped, that should be a matter of how weapons are balanced, and if there should be a buff or new weapon that enables the playstyle, and not wherever or not to keep in a blatant oversight in the code that was never intended. The tide turner being a response to other shields having turning radius' larger than intended is a good example of how bugs like this should be handled. Make it a proper part of the game, and then properly Ballance it.
- It increases knockback from all sources of damage (which can make mobility and positioning more engaging).
This isn't even true unless there's some really messed up part the code I've missed. The damage force increase hidden attribute is a static attribute tied to the weapon itself.
So when you resupply and remove the weapon, this attribute should be removed from the player by then.
You're basically gaining the ability to boot stomp and take 75% less fall damage at the cost of losing 50% air control and being minicrit by 2 specific weapons. I don't think players should do a specific ritual to gain an advantage, or worry about accidentally making themselves vulnerable.
I don't think players should do a specific ritual to gain an advantage
This so called ritual is having thermal thruster equipped, changing loadout and flying into armory. It is not that complicated and very high chance of replication if the person is a combo-pyro. Also again, it is not over-powered levels of advantage, it's basically glass cannon. Why should you be able to essentially balance the game through bug patches? Wait for next major update.
or worry about accidentally making themselves vulnerable.
So you should worry for them?
Why should you be able to essentially balance the game through bug patches? Wait for next major update.
Was that a joke? Because I'm not laughing.