ValveSoftware
[TF2] QoL Request - Slight Changes for Casual
Casual Mode is a bit rough around the edges. While it can still be fun to play, a lot of changes made during the transition from Quickplay can make Casual Mode a somewhat less enjoyable experience, such as CTF and 5CP matches running for forever and players being unable to complete contracts because of it, or players disconnecting and leaving servers empty after the map end screen, or certain teams of players ending up unbalanced and unfair to fight against. A lot of these issues can be fixed by altering the values for 6 commands:
mp_scrambleteams_auto 1 mp_scrambleteams_auto_windifference 2 mp_maxrounds 0 mp_timelimit 45 mp_forceautoteam 0 mp_allowspectators 1
Allowing players to switch teams on their own, as well as have teams scramble after a team wins twice in a row, will help make matches feel more fair. Letting players fill empty slots on an opposing team can help prevent players from being switched over right as their team loses, and having teams scramble after 2 wins will help prevent one team from perpetually dominating the other. Players being able to choose their own teams also allows for parties of players to play against each other instead of being all forced onto the same team. Having a map time limit not only helps put a cap on how long some games can last, but gives more time for players to enjoy the map they're on and spend less overall time in loading screens. This video by lister goes into depth about how these changes could improve Casual significantly.
Additionally, now that the bots are gone, it would be a great time to give speech privileges back to free to play players. Currently, without buying something on the Mann Co. Store, F2P players can't even call for Medic, or alert other players about a Spy, which not only impacts their gameplay but harms their teammates through lack of communication. It wouldn't make much sense to leave this hinderance in now that the game isn't infested with bots. Though, there are still some cheaters in the game. Re-enabling the ability to spectate players will let players more closely check to see if a player is cheating or not and be able to deal with them accordingly. However, if there happen to be 6 cheaters in a party, it becomes impossible to kick them as 5 No votes from party members is enough to deny a kick. It might be a good idea to reduce the effectiveness of votes from party members of the player being voted on.
Finally, I think Casual could benefit from bringing back the 5 slot mid-round map vote system that used to be used in official Valve servers during the Quickplay era. Back then, when the server had a certain amount of time left, it would give the option of 4 maps to go to after the map timer ends, or a 5th option to extend the current map's timer. Casual's current method of voting for a map gives you only 3 maps to choose from, takes around a minute to vote, sometimes doesn't let you input any vote at all, and interrupts and ends gameplay by doing so. Most players tend to disconnect and requeue during the map vote because it's faster to connect to a new server and load into the map than it is to wait out the current map vote system. With the current method of ending a map and activating a vote after a team wins two time, this voting time compounds. Adding in the 5 selection side menu can fix this, giving players more options and more time to spend playing the game.
These changes all work together to overall improve Casual Mode, and can make it a more enjoyable experience for players. Also, while it doesn't directly affect Casual itself, it would be nice if players could wear a badge of their current Casual rank, like the one displayed on the main menu. It gives a small incentive and bragging right for players to play casual mode beyond just increasing the number on their stat screen.
I agree that game modes like CTF, 5CP, and PLR (and maybe others without time limits) should have a time limit. However, in my opinion, people who are addicted to 2Fort and Hightower probably wouldn’t agree with this change.
players being unable to complete contracts because of it
I think you have a great point. My solution would be that on maps/game modes without a time limit, after 5 minutes of completing the contract, it automatically closes.
mp_maxrounds 0
mp_timelimit 45
Why isn’t there a round limit? This would make other game modes like Payload, Koth, PLR, CTF, Attack/Defend and more game modes less enjoyable to play, as they would become too long (those modes typically last between 12 and 20 minutes in Payload, Koth and Attack/Defend, not the proposed 45 minutes). Also, it would cause more people to leave, resulting in the same issue you mentioned earlier (players leaving)
About the video that suggests copying these commands to "fix" the casual mode, that's not true. The game coordinator assigns you to a lobby “tf_lobby_debug” with a specific team when playing. If TFTeam changed the "mp_forceautoteam" command from 1 to 0, it would only break the system because you’re assigned to a lobby with a fixed team (I say this because I tried switching teams in Valve servers before).
Letting players fill empty slots on an opposing team can help prevent players from being switched over right as their team loses
Allowing players to fill empty slots on the opposing team won’t work because Valve already tried this 7 years ago in Casual mode: "New autobalance system to help with balancing teams when players leave a match. The system will ask players to volunteer to switch teams." Nobody wanted to switch to the team with less players, resulting in a huge unbalance. In my experience, the game coordinator does a good job of looking for candidates (players) to fill the empty slots when there is an unbalance team.
When you say "as well as have teams scramble after a team wins twice in a row" what do you mean? In Core Game Modes like Payload, Attack/Defend, and CTF (which only have 1 round), winning twice ends the match, and it scrambles automatically if you stay.
If voting for scramble were to be implemented (which I highly doubt), they would most likely use the Glicko system that Casual mode uses, which would repeat the same current issue. The unbalance between teams having new vs. veteran players is the fault of the Glicko system, which is designed for competitive mode. However, in casual mode, the mechanics are different. Because I am too lazy to write a new text, here is the text I sent to the TFTeam with suggestions to improve the glicko system in Casual:
• Adjust the Glicko system One problem with casual mode is that, unlike competitive mode where winning and losing matters, in casual mode it doesn't, especially since you depend on 11 other players on your team. If you perform well but your team doesn't, you lose MMR, which can severely affect and unbalance the game coordinator. My suggestion is that if you lose the match, you still lose MMR, but if you generate more points, kills, or healing than most of your team, you shouldn't lose as much MMR. There's also the issue of joining a match with only 5 seconds left and losing, which unjustifiably takes away MMR. My suggestion is that during the first minute of the match, MMR should not be affected to avoid this situation. Another possibility is that to earn MMR, you must score a minimum of 5 points to prevent AFK players or those who did nothing in the match from easily gaining MMR if the team wins.
Lastly, game modes like VSH, where the Glicko system isn't necessary, can severely affect MMR since the game mode isn't serious. This could be solved by disabling the Glicko mode in VSH or creating a new matchmaking category called "Arcade" (more information about Arcade below). • Add a season system Another problem with the Glicko system is that there's no way to reset your MMR in Casual or Competitive mode. Over time, this causes MMR to become unbalanced, creating inconsistent matches. My suggestion is that every 6 or 8 months, the game coordinator resets all players MMR to keep the system balanced.
I agree that spectator mode should be enabled in casual mode, but without allowing players to switch to spectator during the match, as this could unbalance the teams. The option should be through SourceTV, like in CS2 and Deadlock, where you can spectate other players or friends matches. It would be useful while waiting in the queue to join a friend match. If this is implemented, I suggest using the TV icon in the main menu (which currently just takes you to the TF2 Twitch page).
Additionally, now that the bots are gone, it would be a great time to give speech privileges back to free to play players.
I agree.
Most players tend to disconnect and requeue during the map vote because it's faster to connect to a new server and load into the map than it is to wait out the current map vote system
I don’t know about you, but in my case, I don’t do it because the voting takes too long. I do it because I don’t want to play with the same players from the server, I just want to play with different players, and I think other players do the same.
BRING BACK QUICKPLAY NOW!!!
Please keep the comments useful and not meme suggestions
Bump, what OP has described is basically the default settings of old Valve Quickplay servers, which the original base game was designed for. This short 4-hour video is the best explanation so far in bringing back old Quickplay.
I suggest to bring back those settings for the sake of the game's longevity especially when TF2 is slowly losing players overtime (a net loss of about one player per day from what I remember). Reimplement the old Quickplay system, and Casual Mode's ranked system can be relegated as a "Ranked" alternative like Valve Competitive if players still want ranked gameplay.
Just bring back quickplay, it's that simple.
Please try and keep the feedback constructive, these kinds of overused memes don't add anything to the conversation.
Just bring back quickplay, it's that simple.
Please try and keep the feedback constructive, these kinds of overused memes don't add anything to the conversation.
It's not a meme. Do you want me to type an essay or why Matchmaking is le bad? That's been beaten into the floor already. Matchmaking needs reverted, simple as.
It's not a meme
It's an unconstructive piece of feedback perpetuated by people who have never played with Quickplay, asking for Casual to be removed is an anti-feature (which is something that's been removed from this GitHub before) and never going to happen. Barging into an issue that's actually written with the intent to improve things and going 'JUST REMOVE EVERYTHING LOL' is the opposite of constructive and will never be taken seriously. Reverting Casual is never going to happen no matter how much people are convinced by TF2 YouTubers that have no ideas for videos anymore and are blinded by nostalgia.
It is a joke suggestion, which is repeated by a lot of people, ergo it is a meme.
I have played TF2 since May 2009. Check my Cheater's Lament and badge, and even my achievements' dates as proof.
It's not a meme
It's an unconstructive piece of feedback perpetuated by people who have never played with Quickplay,
This statement insults every player who still cares about this game and its future, and I strongly believe it is not just a joke suggestion. As someone who has played even before Quickplay was a thing, this sort of stance is just not constructive but rather dismissive.
The game needs very big QoL changes, which is badly needed, along with a better system for introducing new players to the game (anyone still remember the coaching system?). Casual Mode needs fundamental fixing. "Bring back Quickplay", or "Fix Casual", whatever the words are used, the point here still stands: the game needs fixing at its before it's too late, and those 6 commands said by OP are a starting point.
This statement insults every player who still cares about this game and its future
People asking for Casual to be removed for an objectively inferior system are the ones that are actively calling for a worse experience. You want to queue for a whole game mode at a time or manually choose the server? You want to lose the option to queue for your specific maps? You want to lose the ability to queue with multiple people at a time? You want to lose the ability to queue for multiple game modes?
The general response to people is 'No, I don't want this. I want the servers to change settings'. At that point you are not talking about wanting Quickplay back, but wanting changes to be made to the current system.
"Bring back Quickplay", or "Fix Casual", whatever the words are used, the point here still stands: the game needs fixing at its before it's too late
So you don't want Quickplay back, you want changes to be made to the Casual system (as I said in the previous paragraph)? Which is the opposite of what you're saying when you ask for Casual to be removed? Do you understand why 'Bring back Quickplay' is an unconstructive piece of feedback that is only seen as a joke? Everyone using it just wants changes to Casual, not for Quickplay to return completely. Actively asking for something you yourself don't even want is how it gets seen as a joke.
the point here still stands: the game needs fixing at its before it's too late
Nothing in the current Casual system is indicating that it's going to be 'too late' any time soon. This system has been in place almost as-is since 2018 and the player count hasn't dropped to some kind of critical level. This is just fearmongering and doomerposting about a game that's doing just fine, but can have improvements.
People asking for Casual to be removed for an objectively inferior system are the ones that are actively calling for a worse experience.
How are you so sure about this?
You want to queue for a whole game mode at a time or manually choose the server?
Are you sure this is a bad thing?
You want to lose the option to queue for your specific maps?
Are you really sure about this? You could do this with the Quickplay Server Browser in its latest iteration.
You want to lose the ability to queue with multiple people at a time?
You can do this by right-clicking on your Steam friend's avatar, then pressing "Join Game"
You want to lose the ability to queue for multiple game modes?
Just switch to another server?
The general response to people is 'No, I don't want this. I want the servers to change settings'. At that point you are not talking about wanting Quickplay back, but wanting changes to be made to the current system. So you don't want Quickplay back, you want changes to be made to the Casual system (as I said in the previous paragraph)?
Aren't these essentially the same?
Which is the opposite of what you're saying when you ask for Casual to be removed? Do you understand why 'Bring back Quickplay' is an unconstructive piece of feedback that is only seen as a joke? Everyone using it just wants changes to Casual, not for Quickplay to return completely. Actively asking for something you yourself don't even want is how it gets seen as a joke.
And who sees it as a joke? Who? If it was a joke, then why does it keep getting repeated in one form or another?
Seeing that you seem to be more erudite in these matters than I am, may I ask what solutions do you have in mind to help give this game some QoL improvements? Let's try to be constructive then, since you seem to suggest this alot. Do you have alternatives to the six commands that OP has suggested?
How are you so sure about this?
Because I played both extensively.
Are you sure this is a bad thing? Are you really sure about this? You could do this with the Quickplay Server Browser in its latest iteration
Yes, I am sure it is. Being able to choose more than one map or game mode to queue for at a time is a great feature. The Quickplay server browser allowed you to pick a single server, not queue for multiple maps at the same time. I don't want to select a single map, I want to queue for a few maps at a time. This is different from being able to select one of these maps, or queueing for every single map at the same time.
You can do this by right-clicking on your Steam friend's avatar, then pressing "Join Game"
That's not queueing with your friends, that's having your friends join after you have queued. This does that guarantee you'll be on the same team, especially if you have more than 2 people you want to play with. I regularly play Powerhouse with friends, I would have to play against them if it was Quickplay. Or alternatively, not play the game for a few minutes until a spot opened up. That's objectively worse.
Just switch to another server?
Do you understand what 'queueing' means? I don't think you do. You're providing solutions to problems I'm not talking about. I cannot queue for more than one game mode at the same time. Opening up the menu, clicking 'search for match' (because the lets you remember your selected maps), and then being thrown into one of my favourite maps/game modes is an infinitely more user-friendly experience than having to select a game mode then a map. Alternatively, you queued for 'random' and hoped you got one you liked. Combined with not being able to queue with friends (making all of them have to wait for you to find an appropriate server and then start joining), it's just a much worse and outdated system.
Aren't these essentially the same?
Is wanting the Fan O'War removed and rebalanced the same? Asking for Quickplay to be brought back when you actually want changes to the Casual system is essentially like asking for the Fan O'War to change its model to the Atomizer, but what you actually want is for the stats to be that of the Atomizer. The model (in this analogy, that's Casual/Quickplay) is entirely separate from the stats of the weapon (in this analogy, the server settings).
And who sees it as a joke? Who? If it was a joke, then why does it keep getting repeated in one form or another?
Anyone who actually understands the two systems sees it as a joke. Why is it repeated? Well that's what a meme is. Things being repeated doesn't give merit to it. Are you familiar with a 'common misconception'? Perhaps something about the Baby Face's Blaster outrunning the hitbox (never happened), or a coconut texture being vital to the game launching?
Do you have alternatives to the six commands that OP has suggested?
I don't disagree with these changes, but these changes are not 'bringing back Quickplay'. These changes are changing server settings, it's like attributing random damage spread to Quickplay because it was enabled on the Quickplay servers for the majority of its life.
How are you so sure about this?
Because I played both extensively.
How extensive are we talking about here especially for Quickplay? Which iterations of the Quickplay system were you able to play? The version right before 2016? Or the earlier versions?
Which iterations of the Quickplay system were you able to play?
2013-2016, I never used Quickplay for community servers because it was just worse for that purpose.