GeneralsGamePatch
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TheSuperHackers
Change: Increase Internet Center sabotage duration of GLA Saboteur from 15000 to 60000 ms
- Refers to #2097
- Related to #2355
This change increases the Internet Center sabotage duration of the GLA Saboteur from 15000 to 60000 ms.
This bumps the average gain factor on disabling 8 Hackers from 0.68 to 2.71. The gain factor can be lower or higher depending on the veterancy and amount of Hackers inside the Internet Center.
Saboteur build cost is 800.
Math
Hackers give 5, 6, 8, 10 cash per tick, averaging at 7.25 cash per tick.
Internet Center tick is 1.6 seconds. 7.25 cash / 1.6 seconds = 4.53125 cash per second.
8 hackers * 4.53125 cash per second = 36.25 cash per second.
For fair sabotage value we use 2000, as much as original max cash gain.
2000 cash / 36.25 cash per second = 55 seconds.
We can round it up to 60 seconds.
Original
Sabotage duration of 15 seconds.
| Hackers | Sabotage cash value | Sabotage real value | Sabotage gain |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8x Vet 0 | 375 | -425 | 0.47 |
| 8x Vet 1 | 450 | -350 | 0.56 |
| 8x Vet 2 | 600 | -200 | 0.75 |
| 8x Vet 3 | 750 | -50 | 0.94 |
Patched
Sabotage duration of 60 seconds.
| Hackers | Sabotage cash value | Sabotage real value | Sabotage gain |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8x Vet 0 | 1500 | 700 | 1.88 |
| 8x Vet 1 | 1800 | 1000 | 2.25 |
| 8x Vet 2 | 2400 | 1600 | 3.00 |
| 8x Vet 3 | 3000 | 2200 | 3.75 |
Rationale
In original game, it is a mistake to send the Saboteur into an Internet Center, because the maximum return for the sabotage duration is lower than the actual cost of the Saboteur.
This change increases the sabotage duration by +300% to achieve an average gain factor of 2.71 against a stacked Internet Center, which is similar to the max cash gain factor of 2.5 or 3.0 (#2355).
The Internet Center can be defended from Saboteurs with the Mines upgrade.
After further investigation I have bumped the Internet Center sabotage duration from 15 to 60 seconds. This is more in line with the scale of #2355.
Can you evacuate hackers from Disabled Internet Centers? Because if you can this whole Advantage will be nullified.
Can you evacuate hackers from Disabled Internet Centers? Because if you can this whole Advantage will be nullified.
well you said everything needs to be counterable, there you go ^^
On a real note though, first of all your hackers will be exposed when evacuating, secondly you will lose hacktime from various factors, like your reaction time, the walking and animations time etc. So is it even worth evacuating?
This is different, because the attacker is successful but is potentially not getting a reward or at least very little, but for example the cash steal already got their reward when they enter the building. You cannot return your $1000 after it was stolen
On a real note though, first of all your hackers will be exposed when evacuating, secondly you will lose hacktime from various factors, like your reaction time, the walking and animations time etc. So is it even worth evacuating?
The question is, is it worth sabotaging? Because there's definitely a higher probability of near complete mitigation of the attack, making the enemy lose a small amount for relocating will not be worth the investment
That being said, it can be a nice combo tactic from the enemy, forcing hackers out with sabo then drop an anthrax bomb :D
Of course this all depends if my assumption about evacuating is true at all.
You can double check to verify, but I am pretty certain that the sabotaged structure will be disabled and it will not be possible to click buttons, just like you won't be able to build a tank on a sabotaged Arms Dealer.
The way to counter Saboteur is by upgrading Mines or placing appropriate units nearby.
That picture is from a Microwave tank, which behaves differently from e.g. EMP bomb.
Hackers outside the IC will also hack 16.7% slower, earning less money and experience.
What does Sabotage actually disable? Does hacking an IC also reset / freeze / stop Sat Hack I and II?
Realistically no one will test this, so these questions cannot be answered at this time.
The question is, is it worth sabotaging? Because there's definitely a higher probability of near complete mitigation of the attack, making the enemy lose a small amount for relocating will not be worth the investment
Exactly, it's high risk targetting the IC, because it's likely to be mined as it's a high value target. High risk should justify an high reward.
That being said, it can be a nice combo tactic from the enemy, forcing hackers out with sabo then drop an anthrax bomb :D
Yep, or like an ambush whatever.
Of course this all depends if my assumption about evacuating is true at all.
True, I got time tonight to test this.
I would like to know how this interacts with Sathack I & II.
Ok so here is what Saboteur does in Internet Center
General, Hackers
- Disables upgrade buttons
- Pauses upgrade progress
- Pauses all hackers
- Does not disables evacuation
When evacuating Hacker(s), then Hacker(s) are disabled and cannot move. Hacker(s) can move after sabotage duration has ended.
https://github.com/TheSuperHackers/GeneralsGamePatch/assets/4720891/8da4e2a0-f0dc-404c-8824-9bf06ba31a86
Satellite Hack I
The Satellite Hack I is currently bugged in Patch with #2416, but the Command Center reveal is disabled for the whole duration of the Internet Center sabotage.
https://github.com/TheSuperHackers/GeneralsGamePatch/assets/4720891/ddb90a8f-2c1b-4b71-8e08-5c8a34063b43
Satellite Hack II (Patched Ability)
The Satellite Hack II map reveal is disabled during Internet Center sabotage - if it was activated prior the sabotage. During sabotage, Satellite Hack II cannot be activated. The Satellite Hack II cooldown timer will not be reset on sabotage.
https://github.com/TheSuperHackers/GeneralsGamePatch/assets/4720891/44d0c89c-ce36-406c-9b09-cfd86a0964f9
https://github.com/TheSuperHackers/GeneralsGamePatch/assets/4720891/ad82b908-861b-471a-b6b3-067921730052
Full information was appended to post above. Saboteur vs Internet Center is very effective. It does not just shutdown income generation, but also disables Satellite Hack I & II spying for the given duration. With the increased sabotage duration, this advantage is increased.
Are we good with this?
FiRe^ArM
China's late game income is already bad. Doing it would worsen it even further.
China's late game income is already bad. Doing it would worsen it even further.
China Economy and Internet Center buffs were added to opening post for reference.
Jundiyy
1 min does feel quite a long time, and since Hackers hack faster in the IC now it means a bigger loss than original (other than inf gen). Maybe 30 to 45 secs?
1 min does feel quite a long time, and since Hackers hack faster in the IC now it means a bigger loss than original (other than inf gen). Maybe 30 to 45 secs?
As outlined above, compared to the original Supply Center steal cash amount (1000 self reward + 1000 enemy loss = 2000), the fair Internet Center sabotage duration on average is 55 seconds. Therefore even 30 seconds are still not worth it. 45 seconds are not bad, but it is possible that players would still not risk the Saboteur for this time. The amount of success also depends on the amount and veterency of Hackers inside the Internet Center. If is filled with 8x Vet0 or 8x Vet1 Hackers, then it is still more valuable to sabotage the Supply Center for cash instead.