Communication channels

[tarcieri]

This is a tracking issue to discuss what communication channels we should use going forward.

Open questions:

1. Chat: should we set up a Discord/Matrix/Zulip for this group? Should we use an existing channel e.g. #crypto-and-security on the Rust Programming Language Community Discord? a. chat topics: - elliptic curve cryptography - password hashing / PAKEs - post-quantum cryptography - symmetric cryptography - zero-knowledge proofs - traits/interop - secret independent coding - target specific code/issues - governance and vision - others? (please leave a comment)
2. Email/forums: should we set up a mailing list or something like Discourse?
3. Meetings: should we have regular meetings? If so, what kinds? a. synchronous video calls? b. async meetings via chat?

Edit: we decided to go with Zulip! Here is an invite link to join:

https://rcig.zulipchat.com/join/kr6lqdw4x554skbscmjttvhg/

I've also enabled the Discussions feature for this repo:

https://github.com/The-DevX-Initiative/RCIG_Coordination_Repo/discussions/7

[richsalz]

yeah for zulip! but it needs a host.

[tarcieri]

I'd also be in favor of a dedicated Zulip. I think the "streams" work really well for focused ad hoc discussion.

They offer a free tier for OSS projects, and I think this sort of thing would qualify.

[cronokirby]

I think using the #crypto-and-security channel might get a bit cluttered with different topics.

For chat I'm more familiar with (and biased towards) Discord, but other Rust and OSS projects seem to use Zulip to great effect.

I think having a forum is perhaps a bit redundant if we have a chat group. Personally, I'm more partial towards chat groups anyways.

[str4d]

+1 on a chat group, and +1 on it being a dedicated Discord or Zulip.

Something I think we've lacked thus far is a communal space for the various Rust cryptography implementors to collaborate in. Most project-specific conversations will still happen in the canonical development locations for each stack, but it would be great to have a sub-area of the chat group with channels where you can e.g. talk specifically about Rust Crypto crates, or coordinate on using and improving the ff and group traits with zkcrypto devs (👋). I could see a general benefit for this alongside more process-oriented channels (developing the vision statement, list curation, interface discussions etc.).

[tuxxy]

Would much prefer discord over Zulip personally. All my chats are in Discord these days. :)

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 19:49 str4d @.***> wrote:

+1 on a chat group, and +1 on it being a dedicated Discord or Zulip.

Something I think we've lacked thus far is a communal space for the various Rust cryptography implementors to collaborate in. Most project-specific conversations will still happen in the canonical development locations for each stack, but it would be great to have a sub-area of the chat group with channels where you can e.g. talk specifically about Rust Crypto crates, or coordinate on using and improving the ff and group traits with zkcrypto devs (👋). I could see a general benefit for this alongside more process-oriented channels (developing the vision statement, list curation, interface discussions etc.).

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[tarcieri]

Expanding on chat, I added a sub-topic (1a) to the toplevel description to discuss chat topics. Please let me know which ones you're interested in.

[riking]

Email/forums: should we set up a mailing list or something like Discourse?

It really feels like there should be some way to swing per-interest-group spaces on a shared forum.

Maybe private categories + "anyone can join" groups on URLO would do it?

[franziskuskiefer]

a. chat topics:

I'd extend the topics with more general things like

• traits/interop
• secret independent coding
• target specific code/issues
• governance
• vision (doc)

[spitters]

Zulip seems to work well, both for hacspec, and sometimes in the rust formal verification stream.

[tarcieri]

Zulip vs Discord seems like a tough call. FWIW I use them both.

I think Discord has better UX overall, but Zulip streams are really nice for organizing conversations into forum-like threads, at least if people actually understand/use them (which has also been a problem).

I suppose I'm weakly in favor of a Discord to get started. I think Zulip is nice when you have a lot of discussion that needs to be organized/topic focused, but until there's a lot of ongoing discussion perhaps streams are a bit of a premature optimization.

[dfaranha]

+1 to Zulip, as I find Discord a bit too distracting

[dconnolly]

I would vote in favor of Discord if only because we can also use it as the AV meeting platform for sync discussions as needed (afaik Zulip doesn't have video/audio calling?), so that we wouldn't have to do a round of Zoom vs Meet vs Jitter, etc.

[tarcieri]

If I counted correctly that's 5 in favor of Discord, 4 in favor of Zulip so far. Pretty evenly split 😬

I think the AV issue is a good one in terms of having one platform for both and having them integrated. It looks like it supports up to 50 people for video chat?

[richsalz]

can i keep a browser window open to watch discord chats? sure, sigh, what's yet another messaging platform (i know, anyone in this group could say that :)

[tarcieri]

Yeah, it has a web UI with much of the functionality of the native app

[rozbb]

fwiw I'm pro-Zulip. I've had enough bad experiences with Discord audio and video that I don't view that feature as a plus. I think the "premature optimization" argument re threading is fair, but I think the argument is weaker when you note that this choice of communication mechanism is almost certainly a permanent one (migrating is probably more painful than whatever pains we encounter).

I think Zulip's support for threads and LaTeX make it a very good choice for a crypto working group. The primary downsides imo are that this doesn't solve synchronous communication, and it's probably less likely that a newcomer will have a Zulip account over a Discord account. For synchronous comms, I think we can discuss that separately. For newcomers, I think the importance of this depends on how much membership influx we expect.

All this said, I've got accounts on both platforms, so pick away :)

[spitters]

Zulip was also used quite effectively for the rust verification workshop. It the common platform for most people in verification. I currently have 8 of them open. It would be harder for me to keep track of discord.

[newpavlov]

+1 for Zulip. :)

[tarcieri]

For Zulip fans, please check out the existing one for the https://github.com/RustCrypto project:

https://rustcrypto.zulipchat.com/

[spitters]

@tarcieri What's the reason for having a separate zulip for rustcrypto. I find it easier to follow streams in the general rust zulip. It would also increase the visibility of the IG, I think.

[tarcieri]

@spitters pretty much the same reasons something like Hacspec has its own Zulip: because it isn't affiliated with the Rust Project, and because there are enough topics to warrant breaking down the conversation into separate streams per algorithm category

[ineiti]

+1 for zulip, too, but only because I wanted to try it out for a long time already and never came around to do so ;)

[franziskuskiefer]

@tarcieri I think we just need to go for something. As long as there's no official governance how about you pick the chat app?

Email/forums: should we set up a mailing list or something like Discourse?

We could open the discussion section here on GH for an easily accessible forum.

[spitters]

Somehow the link does not work for me.

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 11:07 PM Tony Arcieri @.***> wrote:

Okay, it seems there are enough people in favor of Zulip at this point we can go ahead and use that.

Here's an invite link:

https://rcig.zulipchat.com/join/rrqhlitutey3ilhjdzralyzs/

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[tarcieri]

We now have a Zulip! (see OP description for invite link)

For people who would prefer a more forum-like experience, I've enabled the Discussions feature for this repo:

https://github.com/The-DevX-Initiative/RCIG_Coordination_Repo/discussions/

[tarcieri]

Going to briefly reopen this.

On the most recent call it sounded like there was some decent support for a mailing list.

I'm on a number of cryptography-related mailing lists and at least within this particular subject area it seems like something people do use. Should we make one?

[richsalz]

I would have preferred mailing lists, but we already have two zulip channels and I would not like to fracture the conversation.

[sebastianganson]

I completely agree about minimizing fractured conversation, although am old school and find my brain works better with organizing emails :-|

I’d be interested to hear more about recommended cryptography mailing lists. I currently belong to a couple related to PQC and HE, but am always on the lookout for other ones.

Best Regards, Sebastian

On Sep 26, 2021, at 12:27 PM, Rich Salz @.***> wrote:

 I would have preferred mailing lists, but we already have two zulip channels and I would not like to fracture the conversation.

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[rozbb]

fwiw Zulip has some amount of mailing list integration

https://zulip.com/help/message-a-stream-by-email

El sep. 26, 2021, a la(s) 13:50, Sebastian Ganson @.***> escribió:

 I completely agree about minimizing fractured conversation, although am old school and find my brain works better with organizing emails :-|

I’d be interested to hear more about recommended cryptography mailing lists. I currently belong to a couple related to PQC and HE, but am always on the lookout for other ones.

Best Regards, Sebastian

On Sep 26, 2021, at 12:27 PM, Rich Salz @.***> wrote:

 I would have preferred mailing lists, but we already have two zulip channels and I would not like to fracture the conversation.

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