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Logic for repeatable blue warp ToD changes

Open fenhl opened this issue 1 year ago • 6 comments

Fixes #2235. Part 2 of 2.

This puts the repeatable time-of-day changes from blue warps that were introduced in #2287 into logic. The logic is handled in the same way as for outside Ganon's Castle, which was previously a hardcoded special case.

fenhl avatar Sep 17 '24 21:09 fenhl

I'm not convinced this is a good idea. On one hand I feel like, if it exists, it should be in logic. On the other hand, this is such an obscure change from vanilla oot. I don't know that I want the average player to have to know about this one obscure change to be able to beat a seed.

(Regardless, I think the "provides_time" thing is a good change?)

r0bd0g avatar Sep 18 '24 03:09 r0bd0g

I think documenting this at https://wiki.ootrandomizer.com/index.php?title=Logic#Vanilla_Mechanics_Changed_by_Randomizer as well as the tooltip for blue warp ER (PR soon™), in addition to the announcement that's already been posted to #racing-announcements, should be sufficient.

fenhl avatar Sep 18 '24 03:09 fenhl

I'm not convinced this is a good idea. On one hand I feel like, if it exists, it should be in logic. On the other hand, this is such an obscure change from vanilla oot. I don't know that I want the average player to have to know about this one obscure change to be able to beat a seed.

(Regardless, I think the "provides_time" thing is a good change?)

That is fair. ~~Is changing the time with GC already in logic?~~ Yes (it's literally in this PR, I'm tired), so, I'd say this makes sense too.

Maybe if you're playing with settings that require such specific ToD logic it's fair to expect you to know how to wrangle it.

cjohnson57 avatar Mar 04 '25 15:03 cjohnson57

Do note that if we want to remove this from logic (or turn it into a trick), we still need to change the logic since the current logic incorrectly propagates time of day through blue warps.

Personally I don't really see an issue with adding this to logic though: FW in side dungeons is also in logic, and that's a similarly obscure rando change.

fenhl avatar Mar 04 '25 17:03 fenhl

Yeah I think it's for the best as well. What do you think @r0bd0g ?

cjohnson57 avatar Mar 04 '25 21:03 cjohnson57

What I don't like is that repeatable ToD from blue warps has no vanilla basis, so it requires players to be too familiar with rando development for my taste? FW between dungeons is different in that that is vanilla behaviour. But it's true that we have silently changed some of the particulars of FW, by allowing its use in GTG and IGC (and this can be required in default logic), and giving child and adult separate FW points that persist through age changes (I think this can only be required under the FW trick in Water).

I do think blue warp repeatable ToD -probably- should be in default logic... (I'm just not 100% convinced it's a good idea. I guess we'll see. I'm hoping it's got fairly low odds of actually being required.)

(It'd be nice IMO if fully understanding vanilla glitchless OoT and its mechanics, plus reading the randomizer tooltips, would give you all of the information you'd need to be able to complete any seed. But there are general changes like FW, like blue warp ToD, where there's not a great place to inform players of those changes within the randomizer program itself.)

r0bd0g avatar Mar 04 '25 22:03 r0bd0g

Tested using this plando on my fork:

{
    "settings": {
        "require_gohma": false,
        "shuffle_song_items": "any",
        "shuffle_interior_entrances": "simple",
        "shuffle_bosses": "full",
        "shuffle_overworld_entrances": true,
        "mix_entrance_pools": [
            "Interior",
            "Boss",
            "Overworld"
        ]
    },
    "entrances": {
        "Market Back Alley -> Market Bombchu Shop": "Lon Lon Ranch",
        "Lon Lon Ranch -> LLR Stables": "Queen Gohma Boss Room",
        "Lon Lon Ranch -> LLR Talons House": "LLR Talons House",
        "Lon Lon Ranch -> LLR Tower": "KF Sarias House"
    },
    "locations": {
        "LLR Talons Chickens": "Suns Song"
    }
}

Managed to generate a seed where the playthrough collected Sun's song, which indicates that the blue warp correctly sets time of day.

fenhl avatar Jun 17 '25 14:06 fenhl