OoT-Randomizer icon indicating copy to clipboard operation
OoT-Randomizer copied to clipboard

Disabled Locations Inconsistency

Open r0bd0g opened this issue 3 years ago • 2 comments

When Pots, Crates, Small Crates, or Beehives are disabled, those checks all revert to their vanilla behaviour. All other check types, when disabled, still contain a randomized item, it's just that that item is required to be junk. In theory, disabled pots et al., when shuffled, should also have a randomized junk item that must be looted before vanilla behaviour returns. Maybe you could justify this by saying that the other check types don't revert to vanilla behaviour after the check has been looted, but notably for Cows, this is not the case as they also revert to vanilla behaviour. So perhaps instead, disabled cows should be giving milk on the first play. This might make more sense since cows don't really have a vanilla item to add to the pool anyway.

This paragraph makes no sense, sorry for the ramble. The explanation for disabled locations says the checks will be guaranteed to be junk. You might argue that the vanilla drop is junk, and so as long as any type of junk is given, things are okay. I don't necessarily agree that the junk that's generated should be so different between checks. Briefly I want to mention drops, which are separate locations even though they're from some of the same pots as shuffled items. You have to disable them separately if you want drops to not be logically required. So the vanilla drops I would say are separate locations from the shuffled items, and so it would be more accurate to say the shuffled check contains nothing, and then I guess we can argue whether 'nothing' counts as 'junk' or not.

But if you think the vanilla drop is the 'junk' the disabled location information is referring to, you runs into a problem with the shield pot, where the vanilla drop is not considered junk at all. However, even when the shield pot setting is enabled, the shield pot is not currently shuffled (but it probably should be, so, bonus issue here in this parenthesis I guess).

Anyway at minimum I think the tooltip for disabled locations ought to be updated to updated to explain this difference? but if you do keep this behaviour honestly you should really bring at least Cows into alignment as well.

r0bd0g avatar Dec 03 '22 08:12 r0bd0g

I think it makes sense to have Pots, Crates, etc. as well as Cows revert to their vanilla contents when disabled, with the tooltip explaining which location types will have junk and which location types will have their vanilla item. For most locations, it should be obvious from the location name what the location type is.

ETR-BTF avatar Dec 04 '22 20:12 ETR-BTF

FWIW, the assumption i made as a user when reading the tooltip was actually that disabled locations would KEEP their vanilla junk item, except in cases where the vanilla item was not junk (like the aforementioned shield pot or any of the big item chests) and that those locations, if disabled, would instead contain random junk. This makes the wording of the tooltip accurate, in that disabled locations are guaranteed to contain junk items and to not be required.

i would rather see all items updated to conform with the way pots and freestanding items work now rather than change them to conform to the chest item behavior. Note, however, that the way it is done now for potsanity seems hacky, in that the excluded items do indeed get shuffled (as can be verified by looking at the spoiler log) but they don't get replaced. This results in all of the junk items (overwhelmingly green rupees and hearts) getting shuffled into the pool even though their locations were disabled. To me, that's extremely counterintuitive.

As a usage case, since potsanity was added, i've created custom settings that enables pots, crates and freestanding items, but then excludes the majority of them, with the goal being to add new checks in areas that didn't have them previously, e.g. the rupee ledge in KF, but only having one of them be shuffled, in this example, the red rupee. As a user, i expected the result of this to be that one red rupee would be added to the pool, and that when shuffled that check could contain an important item while all the green rupees would be unshuffled and left as green rupees. Instead, all the green rupees were added to the pool, flooding it with garbage items, and the green rupees were replaced with random junk, but still appeared as green rupees anyway as if they'd already been collected.

Prelle avatar Mar 06 '23 23:03 Prelle