SuperTux
Replace Badguy Counter bool option with number requirement
It has come to my attention that many people want the badguy counter added back
There is a conflict of interest between level designers at the moment:
- Some level designers have said that they don't appreciate the badguy statistic feature
- Some level designers do appreciate the badguy statistic feature
Recently, a change has occured where the badguy statistic is removed by default. This is not a compromise. It is a removal of an entire feature.
- Admittedly, some people want to use enemies without needing to necessarily kill them in order to hit 100% goal. Example: the high, out of reach owls in "In Flanders Ice Field". This is understandable.
- Yet, sometimes, it's not difficult to accommodate it. Example: placing ladders or ways to get on the roof to hit owls with fire bullets, or etc in "In Flanders Ice Field".
- However, there are still some edge cases where inaccessible badguys might be warranted. And it should be appreciated that some level designers might not want to use certain elements to give access to certain enemies.
- Regardless - Badguys should still aim to not be in out-of-reach areas (physically trapped, i.e., a cave level where theres a hole with fish in it), as players might attempt to kill them, and spend time trying to figure out how, only to waste time. They might think there are secret paths to an additional region of gameplay because of the presence of badguys, when there is not.
- There are some levels which are air flower only, and contain spiky enemies only killable via snails. But it is not as fun to carry around snails everywhere for each badguy, back and fourth. This is understandable.
Therefore there has to be a compromise, not a complete deletion of an entire feature.
A perfect solution would be:
- add badguy statistic ON by default
- EITHER: let players set a specific badguy to be slightly transparent/look different, to let the player know it doesnt count to statistics (This could also integrate well with dispenser enemies, which do not count to the statistic)
- OR: let players set the badguy limit manually, so that some out of reach badguys can be accounted for, should it not be reasonable for them to be killed. (And find some other solution for the dispenser badguys ... probably a separate issue)
The latter example should aim to be for edge cases and not poor design choices. That way some designers who don't appreciate the mechanic can chose their playstyle(s) appropriately to focus less on this mechanic.
IMO badguy statistic feature still has a place in the game, and there are interesting design practices you can encorporate as a level designer, to make some more unique scenarios where the badguy statistic needs to be reached. Unique and inventive Enemy utilisation is a declining principle as of recent, and deserves to be revived, as it encourages a different yet valued playstyle, which can provide more intruige and depth to a level should a designer want to do so. It was a feature before. It should still exist in some capacity today.
Instead of removing the whole feature I have a compromise that could incorporate defeating bad guys but not making it mandatory for 100%. This idea stems from rogue-like games:
"sidequest" type of objective that says you must defeat a said number of enemies within a certain time limit
OR
"sidequest" type of objective that says you must defeat a said number of enemies before getting hit/shrunk by an enemy.
This gives an incentive for players to defeat enemies yet making it a bonus objective to earn more coins. It also creates a different challenge for a more engaging experience.
I think, this issue should be marked as discussion, as we need a general consensus first. Just twiddling with this feature every time somebody complains makes no sense. Or if there was already a debate which I don't know about, please, let me know.
Let me share my opinion on this. Most of the levels are designed in a way that killing most of the badguys is uninteresting and there are just a handful of examples where an interesting strategy must be used to kill a badguy. Note that if a badguy is seemingly out of reach and the player has to figure out a way there, then placing a coin (or even a secret area) there might do the job as well. And even if there are one or two badguys hard to reach, the remaining tens of badguys are completely uninteresting. As a compromise, I suggest this:
Custom Level Statistics The statistics could be added using scripts. There would be a script to add a statistic, increment it, etc.. The player could be then prompted to kill all red owls, or to collect all blue coins. For your case, the hard-to-reach badguys could use a special marking, like a different colour. The player will not be bored to kill all other uninteresting badguys, they can aim only at the cases where it is really interesting.
Instead of removing the whole feature I have a compromise that could incorporate defeating bad guys but not making it mandatory for 100%. This idea stems from rogue-like games:
"sidequest" type of objective that says you must defeat a said number of enemies within a certain time limit
OR
"sidequest" type of objective that says you must defeat a said number of enemies before getting hit/shrunk by an enemy.
This gives an incentive for players to defeat enemies yet making it a bonus objective to earn more coins. It also creates a different challenge for a more engaging experience.
There really isn't any reasoning or logic given to these and its more akin to achievements than a statistic. Achievements are planned for the game and are going to also be required within 100%. P.S. by saying "dont make badguys needed for 100%" and then also saying "hey you need badguys to get this sidequest" you've just contradicted yourself. 100% means 100%. You might as well make them a statistic like previously. ???
Let me share my opinion on this. Most of the levels are designed in a way that killing most of the badguys is uninteresting and there are just a handful of examples where an interesting strategy must be used to kill a badguy. Note that if a badguy is seemingly out of reach and the player has to figure out a way there, then placing a coin (or even a secret area) there might do the job as well. And even if there are one or two badguys hard to reach, the remaining tens of badguys are completely uninteresting. As a compromise, I suggest this:
Custom Level Statistics The statistics could be added using scripts. There would be a script to add a statistic, increment it, etc.. The player could be then prompted to kill all red owls, or to collect all blue coins. For your case, the hard-to-reach badguys could use a special marking, like a different colour. The player will not be bored to kill all other uninteresting badguys, they can aim only at the cases where it is really interesting.
A discussion already was had. There is a reason this is called a compromise! This is the best way of doing it, because its acknowledging times where designers dont want to track enemy deaths (as much) as in other levels, for example, based on powerup availability. It's the most fleshed out way.
Tinting coins and enemies and etc just sounds like unneeded bloat. It'll make game design weird, especially with colour palleting. Enemies are also certain colours because they denote certain properties, like the walking leaves, or snowballs. Tinting coins and enemies will just add to visual bloat and confusion, especially to those not concerned with going for 100%. Why do they need to see the certain distinguished colours?
If there was a discussion about it already, then I'm fine with it. Adding a target count of enemies for perfecting a level is OK for me. What I was actually suggesting, was a mechanism for add-ons to override the stats almost arbitrarily if needed. You are right in that introducing these elements in the main game would be an unnecessary bloat, but that doesn't mean that some add-ons couldn't advantage from them, if explained well. The blue coins were already used in two add-ons, namely Mattie's World and Yeti's Revenge. The blue coins weren't added there for stats, but it may make sense to trace them as another collectible. Maybe, this is too advanced though and should be treated as a separate issue.
Iirc custom statistics has been briefly discussed too in areas yeah. I'm all for add-ons getting more tools to do certain things
Discussion had with other level designers, we think the best compromise now is glinting enemies. These are special enemies with a particle status, when killed, will drop a coin. There could be 5-10 of these enemies per standard level (10-20% of the total enemy count), and some be placed in unique situations or ways to challenge the player when trying to get 100%.