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Fix French translation.

Open miniupnp opened this issue 10 months ago • 17 comments

redact (black out) => Caviarder/Caviardage

thanks @ralmn

Description of Changes

Please provide a summary of the changes, including:

  • What was changed
  • Why the change was made
  • Any challenges encountered

Closes #(issue_number)


Checklist

General

Documentation

UI Changes (if applicable)

  • [ ] Screenshots or videos demonstrating the UI changes are attached (e.g., as comments or direct attachments in the PR)

Testing (if applicable)

  • [ ] I have tested my changes locally. Refer to the Testing Guide for more details.

miniupnp avatar Feb 17 '25 23:02 miniupnp

🚀 Translation Verification Summary

🔄 Reference Branch: main-branch-messages_en_GB.properties

📃 File Check: messages_fr_FR.properties

  1. Test Status:Failed
  • Issue:
    • Mismatched line count: 1439 (reference) vs 1386 (current). Comments, empty lines, or translation strings are missing.
  1. Test Status:Failed
  • Issue:
    • Extra keys in messages_fr_FR.properties: BookToPDF.title, compress.selectText.3, login.oauth2AdminBlockedUser, home.BookToPDF.title, PDFToBook.title, PDFToBook.submit, home.BookToPDF.desc, PDFToBook.credit, PDFToBook.selectText.1, BookToPDF.credit, login.oauth2AutoCreateDisabled, PDFToBook.tags, PDFToBook.header, home.PDFToBook.title, BookToPDF.header, home.PDFToBook.desc, BookToPDF.tags, BookToPDF.submit that are not present in main-branch-messages_en_GB.properties.
    • Missing keys in main-branch-messages_en_GB.properties: endpointStatistics.includeLoginPage, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.analytics.description, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.title, endpointStatistics.refresh, endpointStatistics.numberOfVisits, endpointStatistics.title, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.description.3, endpointStatistics.header, uploadLimitExceededSingular, endpointStatistics.retry, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.closeIconLabel, adminUserSettings.usage, endpointStatistics.top10, endpointStatistics.visits, survey.meeting.3, unlockPDFForms.header, endpointStatistics.login, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.necessary.description, unlockPDFForms.submit, cookieBanner.popUp.showPreferencesBtn, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.description.1, sign.undo, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.necessary.title.1, endpointStatistics.all, survey.meeting.6, survey.meeting.notInterested, cookieBanner.popUp.description.2, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.acceptAllBtn, endpointStatistics.loading, login.logoutMessage, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.serviceCounterLabel, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.subtitle, cookieBanner.popUp.title, cookieBanner.popUp.acceptNecessaryBtn, fileChooser.extractPDF, survey.meeting.2, endpointStatistics.percentage, uploadLimit, login.oAuth2AdminBlockedUser, endpointStatistics.top, legal.showCookieBanner, unlockPDFForms.title, compress.grayscale.label, endpointStatistics.endpoint, home.unlockPDFForms.title, endpointStatistics.totalVisits, endpointStatistics.visitsTooltip, home.unlockPDFForms.desc, cookieBanner.popUp.description.1, endpointStatistics.includeHomepage, sanitizePDF.selectText.6, sign.redo, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.description.2, cookieBanner.popUp.acceptAllBtn, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.savePreferencesBtn, survey.meeting.1, survey.meeting.7, survey.meeting.5, survey.meeting.button, endpointStatistics.totalEndpoints, unlockPDFForms.tags, noFileSelected, endpointStatistics.top20, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.necessary.title.2, survey.meeting.4, endpointStatistics.failedToLoad, login.oAuth2AutoCreateDisabled, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.acceptNecessaryBtn, endpointStatistics.showing, endpointStatistics.selectedVisits, endpointStatistics.home, cookieBanner.preferencesModal.analytics.title, uploadLimitExceededPlural that are not present in messages_fr_FR.properties.
  1. Test Status:Passed

❌ Overall Check Status: Failed

@miniupnp please check your translation if it conforms to the standard. Follow the format of messages_en_GB.properties

github-actions[bot] avatar Feb 17 '25 23:02 github-actions[bot]

@miniupnp Please check your translation, there is a conflict in the translation

Ludy87 avatar Feb 18 '25 06:02 Ludy87

@miniupnp Please check your translation, there is a conflict in the translation

4b40a0460e6a95053352856aea18de788b0f31ef has introduced a new translation for "redact (black out)" which is "censurer".

I don't agree with the author. "Censurer" is an imprecise word. "Caviarder"(verb) / "caviardage" (noun) is very precise : As stated by the Académie Française it precisely means "black out some part of a text with black ink to censor it"

@Ludy87 How such dispute in the translation could be settled ?

miniupnp avatar Feb 18 '25 12:02 miniupnp

Sure "caviarder" is the more precise term, I was going for the more widely recognised term instead. I personnally don't think most people who want to redact their pdf know what "caviarder" mean but understand the concept of "censure", also, the french academia is a joke.

Apart from that, I don't really care as long as it's consistent, and "rédiger" is clearly wrong.

bendem avatar Feb 18 '25 12:02 bendem

Sure "caviarder" is the more precise term, I was going for the more widely recognised term instead. I personnally don't think most people who want to redact their pdf know what "caviarder" mean but understand the concept of "censure", also, the french academia is a joke.

The "Office Québecois de la Langue Française" also lists "caviarder" : https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/fiche-gdt/fiche/8417671/caviarder

Apart from that, I don't really care as long as it's consistent, and "rédiger" is clearly wrong.

"caviarder" is widely used in french press :

  • https://www.lesnumeriques.com/vie-du-net/comment-laetitia-avia-a-tente-de-caviarder-sa-fiche-wikipedia-n150287.html
  • https://www.courrierinternational.com/article/histoire-le-caviardage-ces-barres-noires-qui-nous-cachent-la-verite
  • https://blog.landot-avocats.net/2022/10/14/communication-de-documents-administratifs-caviardage-liste-par-le-juge-et-strategie-contentieuse/
  • https://www.lefigaro.fr/langue-francaise/actu-des-mots/caviarder-ou-comment-parler-de-la-censure-20240129

This verb is present in all major french language dictionaries :

  • https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/caviarder
  • https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/caviarder
  • https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/caviarder/13918

miniupnp avatar Feb 18 '25 13:02 miniupnp

I'm going to rebase to fix the conflict anyway

miniupnp avatar Feb 18 '25 14:02 miniupnp

I already agreed with you that "caviarder" is the technically correct term. There is no need to pile up arguments (and arguments about Québecois belong in fr_CA, not fr_FR).

All I'm saying is that being understood matters more than being technically correct. Granted it's not a significant population (maybe 10 people, all in IT or adjacent), no one to whom I presented stirling, knew what caviarder meant.

Let's go ahead and merge your PR once it's rebased, there is no point in arguing about this. It's easy to prove you are technically correct, it's impossible to prove that the term caviarder is not useful for the majority of the tool user.

bendem avatar Feb 19 '25 09:02 bendem

@bendem I'm a bit surprised to hear that nobody whom you presented Stirling-PDF knew what "caviarder" meant. As stated above, this word is widely used in the French press... I asked a few people who don't work in IT and they know what it means.

Maybe if that word is not used much in Belgium, we could create add a fr_BE translation ? :wink: As there is currently no othere fr_* translation than fr_FR, I checked that this word is known by french speakers outside France : Canadian french is maybe the most different French language "version" compared to the French language spoken in France, so if they use Caviarder, it is safe to assume that it is a word known outside of France.

Anyway, this translation has been introduced in commit 0cb5a6c7ad42a425b4735865a3254d8902a25a6d by @deraw more than 1 year ago and has not caused any issue as far as I know. I made a mistake in translating "manual redact" a few weeks ago, and a colleague made me correct it.

Regards,

Thomas

miniupnp avatar Feb 19 '25 15:02 miniupnp

@miniupnp Please check your translation, there is a conflict in the translation

@Ludy87 : We did the rebase with @miniupnp

ralmn avatar Feb 19 '25 15:02 ralmn

I randomly stumbled on this issue and was very surprised to see caviar (as in sturgeon eggs) :laughing: in a PDF tool. For the context, I live in the Paris region and have asked my enlarged family and friends living in all parts of France if they knew the meaning of this verb. Only a few did even with the following context Caviardage manuel/automatique des informations sensibles. The few (less than 10%) who knew that verb have had to redact some confidential information as part of their job before. I have to do it too but only ever called it and heard about censurer. I don't think "caviarder" is known enough by the general population to be used here.

I suggest looking at what Adobe uses: https://www.adobe.com/fr/learn/acrobat/web/redact-pdf They chose biffer and Suppression d’informations confidentielles which, in my opinion are better than censurer and even more so than caviarder.

Other suggestions: noircir, masquer, occulter

benji78 avatar Feb 20 '25 14:02 benji78

Whats the takeaway from this PR, should it be merged or still waiting for some consensus

Frooodle avatar Feb 23 '25 17:02 Frooodle

I also disapprove the censurer verb. caviarder seemed obvious to me but I also like some suggestions from @benji78 (noircir and occulter looks good, I do not like masquer but this is a personal opinion)

ZeGuigui avatar Feb 25 '25 09:02 ZeGuigui

I feel like everybody is going to have an opinion. Let's keep the technical "caviarder" as the main tool title. Other words should be searchable (in tags?), the description could be clearer too, especially as to how manual and automatic are different (selection manuel dans le document vs occultation sur base d'une recherche textuelle).

bendem avatar Feb 25 '25 11:02 bendem

Id like to follow example of other leaders in the space such as adobe, If they are using biffer etc then I think that might be best?

Frooodle avatar Feb 25 '25 21:02 Frooodle

As stated above, this word is widely used in the French press...

Just because it's used in the French press doesn't mean it's commonly used by people. I agree with @benji78. I don't know many people who use this term. I prefer to use "occulter"; it may not be the technical term, but more people will understand it.

Also, removing close words is a bad idea (in tags). If people struggle to remember the word for whatever reason, it's nice to keep close words (like censurer), even if they're not exact.

M0NsTeRRR avatar Feb 26 '25 11:02 M0NsTeRRR

Ok, this seems to be stuck. Let's add some more :

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/caviarder/13918 and https://www.wordreference.com/fren/caviarder both mention that this term is old.

https://www.wordreference.com/enfr/redact refers to the "caviarder" translation as familiar.

"Biffer" doesn't have the implication of making unreadable (just stroken through). "Occulter" doesn't imply unreadable either, just harder to read.

All the links above as well as https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/caviarder and https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/caviarder propose "censurer" as a synonym.

bendem avatar Mar 04 '25 15:03 bendem

Libreoffice does use "caviarder"

image

miniupnp avatar Mar 18 '25 13:03 miniupnp

Going to merge this PR for now rather than keep it open... we can decide if it needs changing more in future (And also add any versions we want in the tags section so it shows in searches)

Just want to get the PR closed haha

Frooodle avatar May 09 '25 17:05 Frooodle