[Long] TS80P Thread

[Ralim]

Creating an issue to track the upcoming TS80P.

So anything said here is speculation at the moment 😁

My current understanding I have pieced together is that it is possible to just add support for the USB-C to the current TS80 build. I believe it is a USB-C interface attached to I2C, so expecting adding support shouldn't be too hard as will only require handling its configuration.

My plan is to acquire a TS80Pas soon as possible and get to work on the firmware side.

I have tried and we are not getting schematics soon (will eventually exist apparently).

I'll update this top message as things happen. Try to keep on topic in the comments 😆

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Edit 13/06/2020:

My unit has arrived, and I'm looking into support carefully now. Looks like quite a few small changes (few resistors have changed), so will need to re-calculate some of the equations as well.

Not 100% sure if will make a different FW build, or if make TS80 firmware auto-detect. USB-PD is just as complex as I remember it, still a bit of work here to go I'm afraid :( USB-C

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Edit 28/07/2020

Beta firmware is out, hopefully this works a fair bit better for everyone. ROM space is a bit tight so still will probably do some cleanup before deploy but want feedback on PD.

[discip]

Ohhhh ... how I have been waiting for this! 👍 😁 Mine arrived yesterday! I am looking forward to this becoming my # 1 soldering iron!

1. Although this thing is better than its predecessor regarding heat-up time and max temperature (Might be even more, I am no expert to evaluate this), I do not like the new 'sliding-handle-piece-thing'.
2. And I noticed the silicone USB-C to C cable being a bit stiffer, than its counterpart from good old TS80.
3. I do not know much about the internal of an USB-C plug, but it looks like there are missing some pins.

Nevertheless I think you (and everyone contributing to this) are going to make this thing even bigger than its predecessors including the TS100.

a big THANK YOU in advance kind regards

[Ralim]

@discip Ah awesome :)

1. Yeah I'm not sure what i will think of the metal handle slide. I wonder if it will fit in the older TS80 plain case if you prefer its style? (I'm only guessing)

2. I'm sort of expecting that, it would have extra conductors in it i guess :| Still should be better than the ones i have here 😁

3. I would expect it to be missing the USB3.0/ high speed data pairs as they would be useless. There are USB-C plugs I often use that only have the USB2.0 pins fitted as they are much easier to solder. Possible its that style of connector.

I'm hoping mine will turn up soon. Once it does expect me to start poking at its support 😀

[discip]

@Ralim Good evening, thank you for your instant reaction.

1. Good news: The original TS80 sleve fits perfectly onto the new TS80P because the housing is exactly the same! (Because of the fact, that I do not like the slightest wiggle in the tip I am holding directly onto the 'muffler' (dissipator) and that way the tip is even shorter, which I prefer as well. So the most logical call was to replace the new handle with the approved one.)

2. Don't get me wrong I am happy to be provided with such an elaborate piece of equipment, but the first thing that came to my mind, was about eDesign having used lower quality wiring. Later on I considered the extra mass for extra power would add to the stiffness. One more thing about the accuracy of fit of the cable plugs: It is very tight!

3. I just thought distributing the 'power' onto as much wires as possible, would get the job done even better. 🤔

I am looking forward to this, almost impatiently. 😅

regards

[whitehoose]

Well I've retired! All the virus stuff has given me the opportunity to jump ship on very good terms. With that in mind I wont be upgrading, because now I have virtually no need for portability - my existing kit will do. I still have about 20Kg of lead solder so I won't be needing more than 340c either. Interesting to see the new kit - looks even more like a weller. If I've got the right end of the stick isn't USB3 already compatible with PD? I thought if you use a QC3 device with a c to c cable it naively uses all 6 lines because the controller doesn't need to make provision for backwards compatibility with earlier usb standards. As I understand it (if I do!) the USB3/QC3 and PD aren't in competition they are (and always have been) compatible, you just get given lower voltage\current if you plug qc3 into PD. "Traditional" USB C to USB A qc cable converts 6 wire to 4 wire while C to C uses 6 wire comms and can talk to PD even if it cant take 12v.

[discip]

@Ralim Good evening, due to the fact, that I got an US wall plug, although I need an EU wall plug, I have to buy one myself. But as you most likely know, there is an huge amount of wall plugs to choose from.

My focus is to get a reasonably small, well build (quality wise) and not to pricey one. But there is more, I want to consider, before spending the money.

Regarding the specs of the unmodified TS80P, its max power draw amounts to 30W. Since I am not familiar with the internals of the iron and its specific capabilities and considering the fact, that your firmware "overclocked" the power draw of the original TS80, I am wondering, if you think about doing the same to the TS80P? (Do you already know, if it is possible to push the limit without compromising the device? I am really all about, not shortening the life to this beautiful piece of art. 😍)

I hope you got my point. 😉

Since there are plugs providing up to 65W of power, but these are somewhat monstrous regarding its size, but also ones with 30W, I am wondering if the latter ones are sufficient, regarding the 🎆✨upgrades 👏🎆 you are planing to provide. 😁

thank you in advance kind regards

[Ralim]

@discip Indeed this is a good question. By back of the envelope calculation, I think it will peak at around 32-34W. So I would lean towards a 35W or 45W small charger if you can pick up one easily locally. However, the firmware will keep the current ability to limit power, so even a 30W will probably be totally acceptable.

I have a 30W adapter here that I have totally pushed to 35W (gets a bit warm, but its done it for like 2 years now). So there is probably some room in there too.

I would pick either 45W/35W/30W depending on size and ease of picking it up :) If the USB-C solution they have used works as I expect, then the iron can query for what limit to use, so it should "adjust" to match the adapter.

[discip]

@Ralim Good afternoon, here are some pictures, which, I hope could be helpful. These are the specs of the wall plug:

This depicts the pins of the top and bottom of the same side of the power cable:

This shows the pins, top and bottom, of the irons inlet:

This is obviously the top side of the PCB:

And here is the corresponding bottom:

This was really not easy to achieve. Especially taking the pictures of the USB-C sockets / plugs was some tedious work. Nevertheless, I hope you could use these. 😁

regards

[Ralim]

Glorious! These are highly appreciated. I'll probably dig into these more in the coming days, but already those confirm most of my thoughts which is excellent.

Looks like a dedicated USB-C PD IC, so compatibility should be good 😄 .

Those USB-C plugs are like I thought, no high speed signal pairs (USB3/thunderbolt). Pins present:

• GND
• VBUS
• USB2.0 pair
• CC pins
• SB
• Vconn

Which is great as it looks like any USB-C cable will work, nothing "special" other than the nice silicone outer.

Interesting to see PD+QC on the same plug on the adapter as, as far as I know, you not "meant" to do that 😂 .

[discip]

@Ralim That's great! 👍

[Hmurik]

Look forward to. My TS80P got into trouble, something went wrong while trying to change the bootup picture. It seems I accidentally messed up the firmware. When connected to a power source, the soldering iron does not work - only the default bootup picture lights up and nothing else happens. When connected to a computer, I see a virtual disk, the boot module for updating the firmware works, but there is no hex file for TP80P to flash it. A huge request - as soon as you have a soldering iron, lay out first of all the native firmware. Thank!

[Ralim]

Mine hasn't arrived yet but when it does ill definitely be racing to get a tester firmware up. You could possibly contact miniware for a firmware for what came on the iron originally. But if not ill try and dump it as well in the meantime for you.

[DjordjeMandic]

What is this port protection? OVP protection or what? I cannot figure it out. The iron is around $80 on banggood especially now if you preorder it. Is it good idea to order it right away during the discount or wait a bit for few pcb revisions in case there are hardware flaws?

[Ralim]

I would be guessing that its just the OVP protection in the USB-C interface being used for marketing?

In the past there hasn't really been PCB revisions (other than the "upgraded" clone irons that are missing protection circuitry).

[Hmurik]

contact miniware I sent a letter to miniware while they are silent. As soon as there is some result I will inform.

[discip]

@Ralim Sorry but I have to ask again, do you think this one would work for the TS80P?

ps: What do you think about GaN technology in general, do have any experience in this field yet? I read in some comments, that some seem to produce noise, compared to conventional technology.

thanks in advance regards

[gutschke]

I have a GaN charger (2USB-C/100W, 2QC/18W). Works wonderfully for all my USB powered equipment. Haven't received my TS80P, yet, but should be here in the next couple of days. I'd expect it to work fine with that charger. From my limited experience, I can absolutely recommend GaN technology.

[whitehoose]

@Discip. Really it's back to square 1, As things stand, taking what happened when the 80 launched Its possible that a wallwart that works with an 80 won't work with an 80p or vice versa, the only way to know for certain is to try... or if Banggood or Ali are bundling - buy the wallwart they're using.

Hopefully the manufacturers have learned and improved their kit to expand the list of compatibility - but certainty ... only when you have one plugged in making the iron melt lead can you say yes for certain.

Small with big currents and voltages is never going to be a good idea - it also depends on your standing voltage. The US use 110v, you can virtually lick the prongs to test them - but UK, EU and Aus uses 240v - that will give you a very hard slap if you extend your tongue, it will even ump the wall to get to you - with 240v you need physical separation and ideally big air gaps between tracks to ensure safety. I have a 5.2Kw 5v supply I bought from work - it still only delivers 18w to my ts80 - total overkill and would be a waste of money if I'd bought it just for the iron, Ohms law is tough - don't be tempted to over spec power (but you need a bit of wriggle room) - everyone lusts after the 1.21 Gw model - but if you're not time travelling it's just a waste The pixies only move at their own pace, unless you change the parameters of the path they won't speed up.

[Ralim]

@discip By my eye that looks like it will work 100% fine. Its USB-PD spec compliant, it has the 12V option, and it has adjustable voltage (which is nice). I see no reason against it.

I've only used some GaN chips, and for all of the power applications I have used them in they have worked perfectly no noticable issues at all. So i wouldn't be worried about it. If there are issues with the charger its probably due to other stuff :joy: .

At least PD is a fairly good spec, so they all should work :)

[discip]

@gutschke Thank you! @whitehoose Thank you for your advice regarding safety and high voltages. @Ralim Thanks, that sounds very promising, I think I am going to try the above mentioned one.

[Hmurik]

Today, firmware for a soldering iron has become available for download: http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4085&extra=page%3D1 I was able to solve the problem with my soldering iron - it works great!

[brencerddwr]

I fully understand having a life away from stuff like this. I am just wondering about progress on this.

[Ralim]

@brencerddwr Your welcome to ask :) Indeed I do have a life :sweat_smile: But I have also spent a few hours on this so far; where I'm at is:

Working:

• Accelerometer
• Tip PWm
• Handle raw ADC measurements
• QC3.0
• OLED

Not yet working:

• USB PD
• Handle temp sensor

Have been focusing on the USB-PD and its just a nightmare to debug with the setup in the iron; I have ordered a breakout board for the FUSB302 chip inside the iron; but also will continue to test it as I have time.

Handle temp sensor is odd; not sure if they have moved the pin or changed something in the schematic. Will most likely need to trace the connection to figure that one out; but should be fast.

Main reason its a pain is that the FUSB302 is just a PHY so it doesnt actually contain any of the logic for talking to the power adapter; that all has to be done firmware side.

[denimjeans]

@Ralim Thanks for looking into this. I got my TS80P as well. Looking forward to use the boost function :) Regards from Germany

[brencerddwr]

@Ralim, when you get to the point of the USB PD and handle temp sensor working, I would be willing to beta test for you. If I understand correctly, since it uses DSU to update firmware, it should be almost impossible to brick my TS80P.

[gutschke]

I'm excited that PD is implemented in software. In the long run, that should give a lot more flexibility. But in the meantime, it's just a lot of extra work.

On the other hand, I suspect that an initial release without PD would still be useful. Even if only QC is enabled, the device could be used. Features would be a little limited, but that's OK for beta testing.

[yawor]

@gutschke it depends. It gives more flexibility in negotiating the PD parameters, but at the same time the firmware is going to need extra space in the STM32's flash. If I remember correctly, the TS80 used the same STM32F103T8U6 MCU as the TS80P, so the amount of the flash memory is the same, but TS80P is going to need PD logic implemented.

STM32F103T8U6 has 64KB flash. Current TS80 firmware size is 36KB + 16KB for the DFU bootloader. This leaves "just" 12KB. Some of it is also used for storing user configuration (probably not very much).

I hope @Ralim finds a way to fit everything there :). BTW I've just received my TS80P, so when there's anything to test, count me in.

[yawor]

Few interesting facts:

• TS80 doesn't work with a USB-C to USB-C cable - even the one packaged with TS80P.
• TS80P does work with both USB-C to USB-C, as well as USB-C to USB-A cables.
• I've been able to power TS80P with an original 45W PSU for my Dell XPS 13, but the voltage doesn't go higher than 9V - probably because the PSU supports 5, 9, 15 and 20V only, so the iron negotiates a voltage not higher than 12V.
• I've been able to power TS80P using a C to A cable from QC3.0 wall charger and QC3.0 Xiaomi Mi Powerbank 2 - the same I use with TS80. On @Ralim's firmware, the TS80 uses 12V from the wall charger and 9V from the power bank. The stock 1.23 firmware of TS80P shows 9V and 7.7V respectively.
• The TS80P US wall charger packaged with TS80P works ok. Banggood even attached a EU/US plug adapter (without even asking for it). I don't know if this is because of the plug adapter or the charger itself, but when plugging it into a wall socket (230V) it causes quite a spark in the socket. Doesn't happen with most of my other chargers and equipment. I've already ordered another 45W PD wall charger with EU plug instead.

[mik-at]

• I've been able to power TS80P with an original 45W PSU for my Dell XPS 13, but the voltage doesn't go higher than 9V - probably because the PSU supports 5, 9, 15 and 20V only, so the iron negotiates a voltage not higher than 12V.
• I've been able to power TS80P using a C to A cable from QC3.0 wall charger and QC3.0 Xiaomi Mi Powerbank 2 - the same I use with TS80. On @Ralim's firmware, the TS80 uses 12V from the wall charger and 9V from the power bank. The stock 1.23 firmware of TS80P shows 9V and 7.7V respectively.

Yes, it seems that the stock firmware does only some protocols on QC/PD. As there are a couple different handshake-protocols for handling voltage and power, I think you just have to get the best combination. For example my powerpack (random aliexpress) does only provide 9V for the TS80P on the USB-C port, but 12V on the USB-A PD port, although 12V on USB-C would be possible.

Update: Supported handshake protocols on the stock wall charger: (the green ones)

[whitehoose]

@yawor The wall wart Banggood supply is fine .... they bundle it so it's guaranteed to work, the problem is plugging it in to a non chinese supply. I'd guess the adaptor you've been given is the standard adaptor everyone bundles with everything. The front accommodates every plug type in the universe the rear is area dependant - they simply screw on an appropriate set of prongs suitable for your country.

Its a good idea - but the front and back rely on the pressure of plugging something in to make contact. You'd (and anyone else on the ts80P train) intending to use the included adaptor would be wise to test the continuity of each pin - I usually lift the back flap of live and neutral to ensure a bit of contact pressure. and I've used my original for about 18 months without drama.

Another option is to open the wallwart and solder a lead onto the PCB connection and fit a decent plug.

The main criticism is the earth continuity (or lack of) but so many things these days are double insulated and come with either a 2 pin euro or US connector or a couple of 100 mm of twin in reality you don't need earth except in the UK to open the socket's gate

[yawor]

@whitehoose it's even simpler, with only US socket on one side

I've opened it and pushed out the contact wings a little to have better contact. The electrical connection seems to be good, but the charger itself slide out quite easily, without much force. Also to be honest, I'm a little scared of the US type plugs, especially when they are connected to 230V. It's easy to expose live connection when the plug slide out of the adapter of this type a little.