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Ralim
V2 Pinecil PD Debug menu does not work on EPR charger
Describe the bug PD debug menu does not work as expected with an EPR charger. can not access information. Screen is glitchy and goes black and shows many states quickly and goes to black then repeats.
To Reproduce Plug into Apple PD 3.1 140w/28V, using certified EPR 240W/40Gbps cable Hold down (+) and keep holding while plugging in USB-C cable. behavior does not go away even I hold button for 2 minutes.
Expected behavior that eventually holding down (+) up to a minute, it will stop twitching and allow me to see the settings in the PD Menu when I release the (+).
Details of your device:
- Device: Pinecil V2, made July 25, 2022, sold starting Aug. 2, 2022
- Release: 2.18
- Power adapter being used: Apple ERP 140W/ 28V , PD 3.1
Additional context using Apple 140W charger, tried 2 different EPR cables. flipped C tip both ways and both ends. Still same behavior . PD menu Twitching and going black and states just keep changing. when I release I can not get to PD debug settings, it reverts to the main menu to change temperature. even holding down for more than a minute and flipping all tips and trying 2 cables. does not work.
Note: PD debug menu works fine on my PD65W charger, only doing this on Apple EPR charger. Note: Not_Daniel reports in discord same problem, and we are both using effectively the same charger and cable. He reports an additional problem too that sometimes when plugging it, it randomly gets stuck at 5V and thinks it is DC.
tried to test to see if I get the 5V like Not_Daniel. I do notice that everytime I plug into EPR charger, it initially shows me a large 5 and then a few seconds later it switched to show 28 on main screen right side. but I don't get stuck at 5V so far, I'm good.
- also sometimes when I plug in, it will start, then black screen, then menu appears again (with EPR charger).
PD Debug menu appears to function normally when connected to Anker 737 PowerCore 24K with EPR cable. Video showing menu: https://youtu.be/QUc8sbSZgnw
thanks joey good to know this is only Apple chargers that PD debug not working on. I am a little jelly you have the first Anker EPR 140w/28V Powerbank Battery.
Based on MagicMeter's deep analysis of packets of the Apple EPR charger (which was made to work with Apple laptop and not other EPR things). Could this explain why PD Debug menu is not working correctly.
The magsafe cable is designed to work with Apple 140W charger & Macbook. It does interesting things, cable consumes a little power, Macbook asks for 20V- 4.7Amps first, and only after that does Macbook ask to enter EPR mode; a soft reset is sent to test cable, and then power adaptor enters EPR mode and sends higher power to Macbook.
see his notes on the Packets: https://usbchargingblog.wordpress.com/2022/04/22/apple-140w-usb-c-pd-3-1-epr-power-adapter-part-1-how-it-charges-a-16-inch-macbook-pro-2021/comment-page-1/
@Ralim whatever you did worked.
just loaded beta 2.19.3E02733 (01-09-22) firmware. Apple 28V charger now works on PD Debug menu, no issue with coninuous reboots and exiting out of PD Debug menu.
@Ralim I want to close this ticket but wanted you to see this note first since we don't know what fixed the problem.
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I reverted back to *2.18 .A1A569A (17-07-22) , and all problems came back. the V2 works for heating, but the PD Debug menu contantly reboots using APPLE 140W charger + EPR Cables.
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Rebooting is repeatable and does not stop.
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Trying at least 2 different versions of 2.19 Beta, problem goes away , PD Debug works as expected, no infinite reboots like in the Video Posted. all PD Debug works in Apple 140w + EPR cable for 2.19 beta. it works on newest 2.19 beta from 2 days ago as well.
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should I close ticket or keep it open until we know what the fix was?
I think this may be connected to an issue I'm encountering with two brand new Pinecil V2s
Using an apple 140w power brick with either iron it will power on but cut out seemingly at random. Looking at the detailed soldering screen you can see it step down through the voltages right before the soldering iron reboots 20v-15-12-9-5. Switching to a slimq 100W brick with the same cable doesn't present any issue. I think it's the cable isn't emarked and it's causing a problem, although I've used this cable at 100w with this apple brick and a zypds board. Would a potential mitigation be to have an option to disable EPR in settings?
I suspect this might be fixed in the newer firmware. If your running the stock V2 firmware this is most likely the cause. If so, it would be great if you could try the newer firmware. We are still working hard as time permits to get the flasher tool updated; at the moment we have a basic temporary one for Linux and Windows. Best support for this is being done by @River-b in the community chat. If you cant join the chat / dont want to etc; just comment and Ill do some typing up here.
Yeah they're running stock firmware. Not sure where this community chat is, I'm sure I can figure out a temporary flashing software
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@ReFil community chat links are in the Pinecil Wiki . Channel is in Discord but there is a Bridge to Telegram/matrix so that people can see the same chat.
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There is an EASY way to disable EPR , just use a lower cable PD60w or PD100w cable since the PD60 has no emark, the Apple will negotiate and work at lower 20V, and the 100W cable with emark tells the APPLE that it can only handle 20V. this has been tested. Apple charger will only attempt to send EPR 28V levels if it sees the special emark from 240W-48V cables confirming they are 28V capable (and of course the device V2 itself needs to advertise it can take 28V)
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to be clear if your cable is Not an EPR PD 3.1 cable then the Apple charger will not do EPR 28V level with the V2 Pinecil. it will do 20V only. try other cables. it should work fine at lower cables too but it will give you lower power /heat speed (20V or less).
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Apple 140W charger should work out of box with V2 if you have a GOOD EPR 240W-48V cable. I suggest getting a certified one only because they take the extra care & money to quality control it to pass USB-IF standards. some non-certified EPR cables may work, I just don't have them.
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Apple 140w was tested by several members to work with 2.18 and V2 and shows 28V on the screen - using with PD3.1 240W cable. But we have a temporary flasher and a Beta Firmware you can load, go to the Pinecil chat.
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If you use a lower cable, like PD60 or 100w, it will work but shows as 20V only on the screen. you are limited on EPR chargers if they don't see a good emark chip message from a real 240W cable.
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On the Apple, I do see it reboot one time when it starts due to the way it is negotiating a little differently than other EPR chargers. after the Initial reboot, it works fine.
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not sure if it's your Cable or Apple charger. but yes please join the chat and also get a good certified PD 3.1 240W-48V cable, there are many available, if you get Power-only ones they are $12-$15. but ones with data included TB3/4 are very expensive.
I don't need the extra power. My issue was related to constantly rebooting making the Pinecil unusable. I found a different brand cable worked better but still inconsistent. will be picking up an epr cable to see how that works
@Ralim
- I asked Gamiee if we should get the Tmp_flasher (win/linux) up on Wiki or Github for easier support presently as more and more people get EPR chargers, so we don't have to type out instructions as each person comes to chat.
he said not to as it's temporary and you and gamiee have one coming soon.
If soon is more than 2-3 weeks from today, I think we should have tmp_flasher somewhere.
What do you suggest, should I just use Pinecil Wiki with some instructions since I can take it down quickly ? or post it in an Issues ticket for people to use? - I'm not sure we need to have a disable EPR feature, up to you, just using a lower PD60 cable does this already.
I don't need the extra power.
join the pinecil live chat , it's easier since we don't check this github all the time. links in the Pinecil Wiki above.
- I'm closing this ticket because with V2 and Apple 140W EPR charger, with Beta 2.19 and Beta 2.20 I no longer have this issue.
- PD debug menu is working as expected now with APPLE 140W charger .
- unknown what fixed it but it works now due to whatever happened in the newer betas.
@ReFil community chat links in Pinecil Wiki also tons of good info in the wiki on Power supplies. https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil#Community_links