Paradise
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ParadiseSS13
Riot shields no longer block projectiles that pass through windows
What Does This PR Do
This PR changes riot shields and their subtypes so that they no longer block any projectiles that can pass through windows.
Why It's Good For The Game
Currently, riot shields and their subtypes are generally seen as overpowered, as holding one in your hand gives you a 50% chance to block all incoming range and melee attacks. While riot shields were arguably balanced when our combat system was centered around one-hit stuns, they are certainly less balanced now, as being able to effectively take twice as many hits means it usually takes 8 disabler shots instead of 4 to stam-crit, 10 instead of 5 laser shots to soft-crit and 20 instead of 10 laser shots to deep-crit. This is an unreasonably strong passive buff from an item that is fairly common and has a very small downside of having to use one hand to hold a shield.
This change will also help balance the power imbalance between lethal laser and lethal ballistic weaponry a bit, as ballistic weapons currently outshine laser weaponry in almost all situations, due to ballistic weaponry causing internal damage, meanwhile, laser weaponry does not.
Riot shields not blocking projectiles that pass through glass also make sense IC, as a shield that is mostly made of glass, logically, should not stop lasers and disablers that are able to pass through windows made of glass.
Testing
Tested on private server:
Shot riot shield user a few times with laser gun, they didn't block any shots. Shot riot shield user a few times with shotgun using rubber shot, they blocked some and got hit by some. Punched riot shield user a few times, they blocked my punches a few times.
Changelog
:cl: tweak: Riot and telescopic shields no longer block laser weaponry and disablers /:cl:
This is my first PR, so please inform me of any mistakes I have made, especially regarding the PR process or anything I can improve, such as coding etiquette.
This is a really interesting idea but i do want to see it testes first. So I'm going to TM request this.
i dont know if this is the way to nerf them. this change impacts security much less than teleshield antags, since sec much more commonly uses lasers and disablers. and projectiles that antags get more easily are stuff like makarov and revolver bullets.
the main issue still is that you can just grab a shield and get its benefits for no real drawback, except not being able to use shotguns. though those arent too useful right now anyways due to the nonlethal ammo being in a bad spot currently.
even after this change its still going to be always a good idea to pick up a shield no matter what, its still universally good, you always have the chance to block an odd melee hit or something the like.
I get the idea that a clear sheild wouldnt stop a laser from passing through it, but a solid steel/plasteel telesheild would still block a laser or disabler.
I hope this won't change the changeling's flesh shield, that thing SHOULD block lasers. Nerfing riot shields and leaving them untouched would actually give clings something strong and unique.
i dont know if this is the way to nerf them. this change impacts security much less than teleshield antags, since sec much more commonly uses lasers and disablers. and projectiles that antags get more easily are stuff like makarov and revolver bullets.
the main issue still is that you can just grab a shield and get its benefits for no real drawback, except not being able to use shotguns. though those arent too useful right now anyways due to the nonlethal ammo being in a bad spot currently.
even after this change its still going to be always a good idea to pick up a shield no matter what, its still universally good, you always have the chance to block an odd melee hit or something the like.
I would certainly say that most regular antags use disablers much more often than ballistic weapons, with the exception being syndies, although loud syndies do have a tendency to grab disablers at some point. This PR isn't meant to nerf shields to an extreme degree, its meant to give antags and sec easier counterplay against shield users. And from personal experience sec tends to arm up with shields much more often than most antags do.
I get the idea that a clear sheild wouldnt stop a laser from passing through it, but a solid steel/plasteel telesheild would still block a laser or disabler.
The teleshield's sprite is mostly made of see-through glass and since it already has the moderately useful advantage of being collapsable when compared to the riot shield I don't want to give it another buff over the riot shield.
I hope this won't change the changeling's flesh shield, that thing SHOULD block lasers. Nerfing riot shields and leaving them untouched would actually give clings something strong and unique.
This PR won't change the changeling's shield as I think its currently rather underpowered when compared to the other shields.
Wouldn't the riot shield, a device designed to block projectiles/weaponry, be made of a more solid type/pattern of glass or plastic? Just because it's transparent and uses similar materials on the protolathe doesn't mean it's actually the same
Wouldn't the riot shield, a device designed to block projectiles/weaponry, be made of a more solid type/pattern of glass or plastic? Just because it's transparent and uses similar materials on the protolathe doesn't mean it's actually the same
I would assume it does use at least some alloy of metal and glass, similar to reinforced glass, however, based on real-life riot shields it would also make sense for it to be made out of plastic.
A large portion of riot shields in service are a metal type with a slit visor.
I be fine with the normal riot shield having shots go through, but the tele shield's sprite, from what i recall, looks entirely metal.
It makes more sense for the upgraded variant to have something the other doesnt, beyond just being smaller.
Though i feel this PR conflicts with another currently up and vice versa, where shield usage requires a more active input.
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/19334
If that one was pushed, this PR feels almost unneeded as the shields balance issues no longer would require this kind of fix
Would it be possible for it to still hit at a reduced value instead of fully ignoring shields? Might be a bit more of a Balance implication than ignoring fully but it might be a nice middle ground.
A large portion of riot shields in service are a metal type with a slit visor.
I be fine with the normal riot shield having shots go through, but the tele shield's sprite, from what i recall, looks entirely metal.
It makes more sense for the upgraded variant to have something the other doesnt, beyond just being smaller.
Though i feel this PR conflicts with another currently up and vice versa, where shield usage requires a more active input.
#19334
If that one was pushed, this PR feels almost unneeded as the shields balance issues no longer would require this kind of fix
Here is a picture of the riot and teleshield:
They both have nearly the same amount see-through portions that laser weaponry should be able to pass through, most shields there are made out of metal with a see-through visor are ballistic shields, which I would like to add in the future. This PR does not conflict with the parry PR thats being worked on as far as I can tell.
Would it be possible for it to still hit at a reduced value instead of fully ignoring shields? Might be a bit more of a Balance implication than ignoring fully but it might be a nice middle ground.
I do believe it would be possible, and I might do that if this nerf is too much for riot shields, although I honestly doubt that it will be.
This PR will be closed due to having 0 approvals and balance objections.
Reasons cited include wanting to see the parrying rework as opposed to just this, as this only really impacts antags using the shields and not security giving a clear edge there.
