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[RFC] Raspberry Pi Images
After fielding another text message from someone about how to set up "this OLA thing you told me about", I thought I'd raise an issue here to gather some thoughts.
Running OLA on a Raspberry Pi seems quite common - there's a few issues here on the tracker here as well as some questions in the Google Group about getting it set up. Generally these days the answer is apt-get update && apt-get install ola, but (anecdotally) that isn't immediately apparent to a new user, especially one not used to using Linux. The prime source of misinformation seems to be this page on the website that also appears as the top result on Google.
The images linked from that page are ancient (0.9.5 is the latest release, and the latest unstable is from yikes March 2014). Further down the page are instructions for compiling from source on the Pi, a process that, last time I tried it on my Model 3B to troubleshoot an issue here, takes over an hour, and likely won't succeed anymore using those images owing to the massively outdated build environment.
I feel that improving this process would greatly help new users. At the very least, updating that page to replace references to the extraordinarily outdated downloads with apt-get instructions would be a marked improvement.
Aside from that, would a regularly updated (as in, part of the CI process that already exists) minimal Raspberry Pi image be something worth tackling? I would imagine an image with a read-only filesystem (to allow shutdown being a simple as unplugging the device) that launches OLA on startup, potentially using external media (i.e. a USB drive, not the base microSD card) for config files.
The UX improvements from this custom image would be:
- Reduce the setup instructions to something like Download image > flash to Pi following official Raspberry Pi instructions > power on and navigate to
<ip_address>:9090. - Guarantee a certain system setup that might reduce issues (i.e. no other software running)
- Add stability to headless installs by using a read-only root filesystem - I have personal experience with filesystem corruption owing to repeated improper shutdowns on headless OLA setups.
Thoughts?
You're right about the instructions. Hopefully an updated debian image will propagate and improve the install, but the docs need to be updated.
What I would love to see is an ola-gpio package that depends on wiringpi and includes startup scripts to set the permissions right so the gpio module works. Took some time to figure that one out.... (there may be a more officially supported solution than wiringpi, but it still works and it's what I use)
I wouldn't personally use the headless setup, but I think it would make sense.
Bruce
I am one of the ordinary users trying to use the RDM testing tools to debug my designs. I've suffered all the problems you've outlined, and have been using 0.9.5. in January 2021!
I'm not a Linux user, and despite spending a reasonable amount of time trying to understand how it all works, I have other pressing issues that are far more important.
When I try to use apt-get, this is what happens: [image: Screenshot 2021-01-14 19.26.15.png]
If I could just get a working image of the most recent stable build for R-Pi, that would be most helpful. Is there a path to getting there?
I can see all the incredible, dedicated work going into OLA - updates, improvements, bug fixes, it's wonderful. But without an easy path for end users like me to put it to use, it's all wasted effort. Lots of us hope to make use of these tools, I'm certainly not the only one staring at cryptic error messages we can't decipher.
All help is very much appreciated. OLA is an amazing effort!
Jim
On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:23 PM Dan Keenan [email protected] wrote:
After fielding another text message from someone about how to set up "this OLA thing you told me about", I thought I'd raise an issue here to gather some thoughts.
Running OLA on a Raspberry Pi seems quite common - there's a few issues here on the tracker here as well as some questions in the Google Group about getting it set up. Generally these days the answer is apt-get update && apt-get install ola, but (anecdotally) that isn't immediately apparent to a new user, especially one not used to using Linux. The prime source of misinformation seems to be this page https://www.openlighting.org/ola/tutorials/ola-on-raspberry-pi/ on the website that also appears as the top result https://www.google.com/search?q=ola+raspberry+pi on Google.
The images linked from that page are ancient (0.9.5 is the latest release, and the latest unstable is from yikes March 2014). Further down the page are instructions for compiling from source on the Pi, a process that, last time I tried it on my Model 3B to troubleshoot an issue here, takes over an hour, and likely won't succeed anymore using those images owing to the massively outdated build environment.
I feel that improving this process would greatly help new users. At the very least, updating that page to replace references to the extraordinarily outdated downloads with apt-get instructions would be a marked improvement.
Aside from that, would a regularly updated (as in, part of the CI process that already exists) minimal Raspberry Pi image be something worth tackling? I would imagine an image with a read-only filesystem (to allow shutdown being a simple as unplugging the device) that launches OLA on startup, potentially using external media (i.e. a USB drive, not the base microSD card) for config files.
The UX improvements from this custom image would be:
- Reduce the setup instructions to something like Download image > flash to Pi following official Raspberry Pi instructions > power on and navigate to <ip_address>:9090.
- Guarantee a certain system setup that might reduce issues (i.e. no other software running)
- Add stability to headless installs by using a read-only root filesystem - I have personal experience with filesystem corruption owing to repeated improper shutdowns on headless OLA setups.
Thoughts?
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@soundscu I think your screenshot was eaten by GitHub's email-to-issue-comment system, as all I can see is the image's filename.
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ola
should get you 0.10.7 (confirm by running olad --version), the latest pre-built release available. 0.10.8 has been released, but requires a bit of frustration to get onto the Raspberry Pi (something I'd love to solve here). There was a bit of time where ola was not available in the software repository because of some dependency issues, but it should be there now.
If these commands don't work (I just tested with the latest Raspberry Pi OS Lite), I'd suggest opening a separate issue or posting to the Google Group.
Hearing your perspective is really cementing my thought that there is room for improvement here - I've used RC4 products before and it's fun to hear that OLA is a part of your process!
Dan,
It's soooo great to here from you!
Trying those commands is what my screenshot shows. Can you see it with this link? https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3s6m2v1z33bdns/Screenshot%202021-01-14%2019.26.15.png?dl=0
It would be great if I'm just typing something incorrectly or haven't enabled some simple feature that makes this stuff work.
And thanks for the kind words about RC4. OLA is a great tool -- even the really old version I'm using. My R-Pi with RDM testing is as important to me as my Tektronix scope and my firmware IDE. Brilliant!
Jim
On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 8:05 PM Dan Keenan [email protected] wrote:
@soundscu https://github.com/soundscu I think your screenshot was eaten by GitHub's email-to-issue-comment system, as all I can see is the image's filename.
sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install ola
should get you 0.10.7 (confirm by running olad --version), the latest pre-built release available. 0.10.8 has been released, but requires a bit of frustration to get onto the Raspberry Pi (something I'd love to solve here). There was a bit of time where ola was not available in the software repository because of some dependency issues, but it should be there now.
If these commands don't work (I just tested with the latest Raspberry Pi OS Lite https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/operating-systems/#raspberry-pi-os-32-bit), I'd suggest opening a separate issue or posting to the Google Group https://groups.google.com/g/open-lighting.
Hearing your perspective is really cementing my thought that there is room for improvement here - I've used RC4 products before and it's fun to hear that OLA is a part of your process!
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Dan, It's soooo great to here from you! Trying those commands is what my screenshot shows. Can you see it with this link? https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3s6m2v1z33bdns/Screenshot%202021-01-14%2019.26.15.png?dl=0 It would be great if I'm just typing something incorrectly or haven't enabled some simple feature that makes this stuff work. And thanks for the kind words about RC4. OLA is a great tool -- even the really old version I'm using. My R-Pi with RDM testing is as important to me as my Tektronix scope and my firmware IDE. Brilliant! Jim
Hi @soundscu ,
We can see that image now. Are you sure you ran this command first:
sudo apt-get update
Can we see the output of that command too?
You can click and drag to highlight in PuTTy and just paste the text in here if it's easier?
Are you running this on your Pi just built off the old image?
Hi Peter.
I did run that. This is what happens:
login as: pi
[email protected]'s password: Linux raspberrypi 4.1.19-v7+ #858 SMP Tue Mar 15 15:56:00 GMT 2016 armv7l The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software; the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright. Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law. Last login: Thu Jan 14 16:17:30 2021 from jds-eng pi@raspberrypi ~ $ sudo apt-get update Ign http://apt.openlighting.org wheezy Release.gpg Get:1 http://raspberrypi.collabora.com wheezy Release.gpg [405 B] Hit http://archive.raspberrypi.org wheezy Release.gpg Hit http://apt.openlighting.org wheezy Release Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy Release.gpg Hit http://apt.openlighting.org wheezy/main armhf Packages Hit http://archive.raspberrypi.org wheezy Release Get:2 http://raspberrypi.collabora.com wheezy Release [401 B] Err http://raspberrypi.collabora.com wheezy Release Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy Release Hit http://archive.raspberrypi.org wheezy/main armhf Packages Ign http://apt.openlighting.org wheezy/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://apt.openlighting.org wheezy/main Translation-en Ign http://archive.raspberrypi.org wheezy/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://archive.raspberrypi.org wheezy/main Translation-en Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/main armhf Packages 404 Not Found Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/contrib armhf Packages 404 Not Found Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/non-free armhf Packages 404 Not Found Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/rpi armhf Packages 404 Not Found Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/contrib Translation-en_GB Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/contrib Translation-en Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/main Translation-en Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/non-free Translation-en_GB Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/non-free Translation-en Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/rpi Translation-en_GB Ign http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org wheezy/rpi Translation-en Fetched 806 B in 14s (54 B/s) Reading package lists... Done W: A error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: http://raspberrypi.collabora.com wheezy Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2 W: Failed to fetch http://raspberrypi.collabora.com/dists/wheezy/Release W: Failed to fetch http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/dists/wheezy/main/binary-a rmhf/Packages 404 Not Found W: Failed to fetch http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/dists/wheezy/contrib/binar y-armhf/Packages 404 Not Found W: Failed to fetch http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/dists/wheezy/non-free/bina ry-armhf/Packages 404 Not Found W: Failed to fetch http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/dists/wheezy/rpi/binary-ar mhf/Packages 404 Not Found W: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. pi@raspberrypi ~ $
Okay, so essentially because you've used our ancient image, it can't update unfortunately (because it's so old). Which is sort of the point of this thread (which you've slightly hijacked). :laughing:
If you just download a normal clean image from here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/operating-systems/#raspberry-pi-os-32-bit
Lite will work if you're happy with just the command line and are accessing the RDM tests from a web browser on another computer.
Then SSH back in (you'll need to enable SSH first, see the Pi website for instructions) and then run the two commands Dan mentioned and you'll get a shiny new version of OLA installed.
Fantastic!
Lite is fine, I'm running the R-Pi without a monitor or keyboard but I have them on hand if I need to tweak something. For regular operation, it's all browser from another computer.
Sorry for hijacking. :/ Jim
On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:51 PM Peter Newman [email protected] wrote:
Okay, so essentially because you've used our ancient image, it can't update unfortunately (because it's so old). Which is sort of the point of this thread (which you've slightly hijacked). 😆
If you just download a normal clean image from here:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/operating-systems/#raspberry-pi-os-32-bit
Lite will work if you're happy with just the command line and are accessing the RDM tests from a web browser on another computer.
Then SSH back in (you'll need to enable SSH first, see the Pi website for instructions) and then run the two commands Dan mentioned and you'll get a shiny new version of OLA installed.
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Lite is fine, I'm running the R-Pi without a monitor or keyboard but I have them on hand if I need to tweak something. For regular operation, it's all browser from another computer.
Great, let us know how you get on.
Sorry for hijacking. :/
Don't worry about it, it's some strong evidence for the rest of this thread! Although I might take the liberty of hiding most of that discussion when you're sorted.
I agree that throughout the wiki and website, we need to point people to just
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ola
More.
And possibly drop the existing images, or stick a note in there too.
Aside from that, would a regularly updated (as in, part of the CI process that already exists) minimal Raspberry Pi image be something worth tackling?
Yes probably, there are a few other discussions here too: https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/raspberrypi/issues
I suspect it's not something I'll do personally, I think my time is probably better spent writing code/reviewing PRs but I'd welcome someone taking it on. As you say, it probably needs automating given it needs running at a minimum every time there is a new image from Raspberry Pi Foundation and/or new hardware from them as well as each time there is a new OLA release.
I would imagine an image with a read-only filesystem (to allow shutdown being a simple as unplugging the device) that launches OLA on startup, potentially using external media (i.e. a USB drive, not the base microSD card) for config files.
I think this may be part of the issue. While a read-only filesystem makes sense, handling the config files is a pain. For some people having it write once, or an easy way to switch it to read-only might make sense. i.e. get your system running as you'd like, then run this.
Some people may want Lite, others might want the desktop to run it as a standalone testing appliance etc. Others may want OLA and then say QLC+ or whatever. SSH needs enabling on the new installs but probably shouldn't have a default password. Pretty soon you've probably got a full time job and that's just one OS and one bit of hardware.
Plus the debs themselves still need building for this to all work...
I think someone (Ubuntu) were offering a way to take a package and make an appliance install which would possibly be ideal, although I've a feeling they perhaps needed to be snaps.
You're right about the instructions. Hopefully an updated debian image will propagate and improve the install, but the docs need to be updated.
If either of you fancy writing some improved words either I can chuck them onto the website or I can sort out some access for someone to do it directly. Likewise with tracking down all the stale bits of wiki.
What I would love to see is an ola-gpio package that depends on wiringpi and includes startup scripts to set the permissions right so the gpio module works. Took some time to figure that one out.... (there may be a more officially supported solution than wiringpi, but it still works and it's what I use)
There's a script somewhere to do the job already I think. Alternatively someone pointed out a different GPIO daemon which would work on more than just a Pi which might be worth looking at too, and that could run as root to solve the permission issues.
That sort of thing is perhaps the main potential selling point of an OLA specific Pi image, it could have all the UART etc tweaks in place already.
I can work on some words for the website - how's best to deliver, since there's nothing to open a PR against?
Also re. an OLA specific Pi image, it sounds like the first major hurdle is getting the correct deb packages built, something that currently doesn't happen at all in CI for any platform. Perhaps that's a separate issue?
This morning I successfully got the latest OLA up and running. It was easier than expected, once I had some knowledge gained from this thread.
I started with the R-Pi image creater program downloaded from raspberrypi.org, and chose the “Lite” OS. This is easiest way to create a bootable SD for the pi — no need to find the image file and download manually, the program does all that work, ensuring you have the latest version. (I don’t care to run OLA locally, but it should work if you choose the full desktop version of the OS.)
A monitor and keyboard are required to change the login password and enable SSH. No big deal, clear simple instructions will get anyone through this with ease.
Be sure to watch the first boot-up, where the IP address is declared near the end of the process. This is the easiest way to know what it is.
From here on, everything can be done via PuTTy, no monitor and keyboard required anymore. Or you can continue using them.
Then it’s: sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install ola sudo apt-get install ola-rdm-tests
On boot-up, everything starts automatically, background services run, and no other configuration or setup is required. That’s great!
The final “secret” is knowing that the main OLA webpage is served at <pi-IP-addr>:9090, where you select and configure DMX interface hardware and universes.
And finally, the RDM Responder tests page is at <pi-IP-addr>:9099.
I think that covers it. Those are the steps that I was unable to find documented anywhere else.
Jim RC4
I've done a more thorough review of the website, and there is a ton of outdated info there. Some specific points from Download and Install:
- OLA Debian/Ubuntu links to instructions about an abandoned apt repo
- OLA Raspberry Pi has the issues we've been discussing here. @soundscu's latest response seems an excellent starting point for what this page should contain.
- Install from Git/Tarball needs deps version updated and can probably have references to ancient Ubuntu releases removed to avoid confusion
- Slackware builds are also from several years ago (the linked build is ancient, the most recent on slackbuilds is packaged from 98ee4066b6445f943a789611610515b45bbeac25, a commit from 2017)
- Gentoo seems maintained in gentoo/gentoo#15017
- Mac installation doesn't mention deps on Mac and buries the easier options (using MacPorts or Homebrew, both of which are fairly up to date)
@peternewman If you prefer I can open a separate issue for this, as IMO the RPI UX issues we've been discussing apply equally to other platforms, but likely haven't come up nearly as often as those users are more likely to be able to adapt the instructions.
I can work on some words for the website - how's best to deliver, since there's nothing to open a PR against?
Thanks. Up to you really, you could open an issue in here (given it's OLA related documentation) or as an issue against the website repo ( https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/website ) as its logically a website issue.
Also re. an OLA specific Pi image, it sounds like the first major hurdle is getting the correct deb packages built, something that currently doesn't happen at all in CI for any platform. Perhaps that's a separate issue?
Sorry, I didn't really phrase that very well, @yoe currently gets our releases into Debian and from there they migrate into Raspbian and Ubuntu. We could look at "nightly" debs for people trying to sort issues, although then you've got a versioning issue in terms of identifying the type of build, although it would be an opportunity to remove the confusion between something being 0.10 branch or master branch or 0.10.8 release etc. @yoe may have various opinions I'm sure. I guess the other thing is we could just do more frequent releases, but that has a knock on for all the other places you listed too. We currently have our own deb build config in the repo, which differs slightly from Debian as it's more lax in a few areas so people can build their own debs if they want.
* OLA Debian/Ubuntu links to instructions about an abandoned apt repo
Agreed
* OLA Raspberry Pi has the issues we've been discussing here. @soundscu's latest response seems an excellent starting point for what this page should contain.
Agreed. TBH given Raspberry Pi is Debian I wonder if we can integrate these docs somehow (unless we're still talking about a Pi image).
* Install from Git/Tarball needs deps version updated and can probably have references to ancient Ubuntu releases removed to avoid confusion
Yep, there's another job for life there keeping deps versions up to date, unless we can do something with wildcards or similar.
* Slackware builds are also from several years ago (the linked build is ancient, the most recent on [slackbuilds](http://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/development/ola/) is packaged from [98ee406](https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/ola/commit/98ee4066b6445f943a789611610515b45bbeac25), a commit from 2017)
I think that's @schelmo (without trying to drop them in it). Obviously I don't know if they're using Slackware and/or OLA.
* Gentoo seems maintained in [gentoo/gentoo#15017](https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pull/15017)
Yeah I've pinged that PR to mention 0.10.8.
* Mac installation doesn't mention deps on Mac and buries the easier options (using MacPorts or Homebrew, both of which are fairly up to date)
Yep, they're both on 0.10.8 or have open PRs for it.
@peternewman If you prefer I can open a separate issue for this, as IMO the RPI UX issues we've been discussing apply equally to other platforms, but likely haven't come up nearly as often as those users are more likely to be able to adapt the instructions.
Yeah it might make sense. I'm assuming you're not proposing we build images for anything else? Perhaps we just need a page of getting started once OLA is installed, which would cover the second half of @soundscu 's most recent post and any local config.
I guess by the same argument, we could move what's in a Pi image to this repo for the Pi image: https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/raspberrypi
Perhaps from @soundscu 's comments it should also include a default index.html with some links to help etc, as well as to the OLA UI and RDM Tests?
Agreed. TBH given Raspberry Pi is Debian I wonder if we can integrate these docs somehow
This is what led me down the rabbit-hole of examining the rest of the site - I agree 100% that merging some of those pages will not only clear things up but ease the maintenance burden somewhat. I'll open a separate issue here for doc changes and leave this for Pi-specific issues.
I found RPi-Distro/pi-gen which looks promising, though I haven't played with it at all - it's the script that builds the official Raspbian images. Might make it easier to slipstream in packages and other config changes.
IMO, the process I followed this morning is ideal for Pi users. It ensures the most recent versions of everything, and is not difficult.
People choosing a Pi for OLA are technical enough to appreciate the fundamental beauty of these steps:
- Install the OS.
- Install OLA.
- Install additional components, like responder testing, as needed.
There’s no need to waste time creating images that will always be obsolete shortly after, or automating the continual creation of new images.
It took me no time to get things working, once I understood the process. A webpage with text, images (and maybe a tutorial video) would cover this for a long time into the future.
What’s involved in becoming a contributor? I’d be happy to assist with documentation of that’s any help.
Jim
On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 6:04 PM Dan Keenan [email protected] wrote:
Agreed. TBH given Raspberry Pi is Debian I wonder if we can integrate these docs somehow
This is what led me down the rabbit-hole of examining the rest of the site
- I agree 100% that merging some of those pages will not only clear things up but ease the maintenance burden somewhat. I'll open a separate issue here for doc changes and leave this for Pi-specific issues.
I found RPi-Distro/pi-gen https://github.com/RPi-Distro/pi-gen which looks promising, though I haven't played with it at all - it's the script that builds the official Raspbian images. Might make it easier to slipstream in packages and other config changes.
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I've setup a PR at OpenLightingProject/website#14 for some discussion on docs.
I've written some new docs over at OpenLightingProject/website#14 that should help RPi UX, as well as most other setups. It turned into a bit of a full overhaul, as the Download & Install guide on the website hasn't been touched in some time and needed some love. Feedback appreciated! In particular, as I'm primarily an Ubuntu/Windows 10 user, I'd appreciate some more eyes on areas like macOS installation.
It sounds like RPi-specific issues could be better addressed through a standalone script to handle things like UART configuration, so I'll leave the standalone image out for now (indeed, I removed all references to bespoke images from the revised docs).
There's a script somewhere to do the job already I think. Alternatively someone pointed out a different GPIO daemon which would work on more than just a Pi which might be worth looking at too, and that could run as root to solve the permission issues.
I did point out PiGPIOd some time back but that runs only on the Pi (as far as I know). That could run as root and have other (non-root) applications access it. However, is the thing with GPIOs and root still a problem? I understand that for SPI, the recommendation is a simple udev script (https://opendmx.net/index.php/OLA_Device_Specific_Configuration#SPI) Can't the same be done for GPIO as well? A udev-script that allows everyone to access the sysfs-files? The current approach seems to have the olad-user be in the plugdev-group + a shell script that fixes the permissions.
Now that I know OLA's code a bit better: Is there interest in having PiGPIOd-integration in OLA so the GPIOs can be accessed without root privileges? I mean, then the user has to install pigpiod and have that start automatically (systemd service I assume)
Reply to myself: I've just found this one: https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/ola/issues/1385#issuecomment-396051825 which is probably the one @peternewman was referring to?
What’s involved in becoming a contributor? I’d be happy to assist with documentation of that’s any help.
By responding to this issue you already are @soundscu . You could review @danielskeenan 's work in https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/website/pull/14 .
For some other ways to contribute, have a look here: https://www.openlighting.org/openlightingproject/get-involved/contributing/
You may also like to publish your production code for RDM responders following the instructions here: https://opendmx.net/index.php/Using_the_RDM_Test_UI#RDM_Responder_Publisher
Which would add them to: http://rdm.openlighting.org/
Do you have any manufacturer specific PIDs, it would be good to add them too: https://www.openlighting.org/rdm-tools/rdm-pid-store/
Reply to myself: I've just found this one: #1385 (comment) which is probably the one @peternewman was referring to?
Quite possibly it was libgpiod, I thought I found something with some nice GUI user-space dummy interfaces and support for a variety of interfaces too, although I guess the kernel one should do that for e.g. USB boards.