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Need to add info regarding not putting SQL workload on the OS

Open camaier opened this issue 2 years ago • 8 comments

[Enter feedback here] Need to add info regarding not putting SQL workload on the OS due to possble IO Contention and performance issues issues. right now because the SQL comes installed on the OS most customers leave it there. This can be a big performance issue not just for SQL, but also for the OS iteself. Having the workload on the OS can cause IO contention with the VM even if it's not going over it's limits it both the OS and the application need the IOs at the exact same time.

This is a recommedation the performance is constantly informing customers about but have no real documentation in any of the best practices for SQL.

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camaier avatar Aug 30 '22 17:08 camaier

@camaier I have assigned the issue to the content author for further review.

SatishBoddu-MSFT avatar Aug 31 '22 02:08 SatishBoddu-MSFT

Hi @camaier , thanks for your feedback! My apologies, would you mind clarifying what you mean by "putting SQL workload on the OS"?

Thanks! Masha from the SQL Docs team

MashaMSFT avatar Dec 13 '22 18:12 MashaMSFT

Hello,

What I mean is that it is Best practices to not have any of the SQL workload on the OS disk as per our SQL engineers and from everything I've been taught regarding SQL. Problem is, when a customer builds a SQL VM from the marketplace, the SQL is automatically installed on the OS Disk. This can automatically start causing performance issues based on their usage of SQL or whatever DB they are using. Not to mention it installs data and log files on the OS drive as well even though best practice is to keep them separated.

I guess I don't understand why we install the SQL (data and logs) on the OS disk when we know this can cause issues. Why isn't it designed so that it forces the customer to use data disks for the SQL (one for the app/data files and one for log files with the appropriate ReadOnly (data files) or None (log files) caching. That would be the best way to do this. We have so many performance cases based on this fact that if we just avoided it to begin with, it would be better for everyone.

I was hoping, because I don't think we can change the way the marketplace sets it up that maybe as part of the setup process after the fact, we instruction the customer to move that stuff. I believe it's in the Best Practices, but half our customers don't use the Best Practices.

Please let me know if I can provide any more information.

Best regards, Cassey

Cassey Maier Microsoft Azure Technical Support Customer Services and Support Working Hours: Email: Office Phone Sun -Weds 9:00 am - 8:00 pm CST @.@.> +1 (701) 281-7508 X17508

If you need to work with another Support Engineer outside of my working hours, please send email to @.@.> with your case number, and availability.

We are always interested to hear your feedback. Please feel free to reach my manager regarding the level of service you have received. enter manager @.@.>.

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From: Masha at MSFT @.> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 12:05 PM To: MicrosoftDocs/azure-docs @.> Cc: Cassey Maier @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [MicrosoftDocs/azure-docs] Need to add info regarding not putting SQL workload on the OS (Issue #97774)

Hi @camaierhttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcamaier&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cd96119050fa344e27b2a08dadd349067%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065515081674685%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FO%2BN1kI77txs7JQo5zn%2FkAriZXxgbyp%2B3m0TMzd97OU%3D&reserved=0 , thanks for your feedback! My apologies, would you mind clarifying what you mean by "putting SQL workload on the OS"?

Thanks! Masha from the SQL Docs team

Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftDocs%2Fazure-docs%2Fissues%2F97774%23issuecomment-1349325964&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cd96119050fa344e27b2a08dadd349067%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065515081674685%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3Gy%2Flrh7eN0TDQJKpoQdoay%2BweMkgZ4TVEh3G4%2FFASE%3D&reserved=0, or unsubscribehttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FARDTXKUKEP2KIGA3J2ETNTTWNC3FDANCNFSM6AAAAAAQATZ5ZE&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cd96119050fa344e27b2a08dadd349067%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065515081674685%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VXGvzgrpdXyG89xL98tcJlx%2BqsrrJdbPmOo8FBqB2to%3D&reserved=0. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.@.>>

camaier avatar Dec 13 '22 19:12 camaier

@camaier If the customer uses a SQL Server marketplace image with the default settings, the only thing that should get installed on the OS disk is the SQL binaries and the system databases. User data files and log files will go to their respective drives (based on the default storage configuration settings) and tempdb will go on the D drive if it is available. We also outline this best practice in the Storage section of this checklist.

Do we need to reword this somehow to make it clearer?

bluefooted avatar Dec 13 '22 22:12 bluefooted

Hello,

That's the problem. I think it's clear, but that's me. I'm not sure how much clearer we can make it because every SQL that's deployed that I have looked into the OS almost 100% of the time, houses data and log files even when the data disks do not.

I don't know why then customers move these files, but according to them, that's how it gets installed when they created the VM. Good to know for a fact that's not the case. I know in the best practices we have this.

Place data, log, and tempdb files on separate drives. o For the data drive, use premium P30 and P40 or smaller diskshttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/disks-types#premium-ssds to ensure the availability of cache support o For the log drive plan for capacity and test performance versus cost while evaluating the premium P30 - P80 diskshttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/disks-types#premium-ssds. o If submillisecond storage latency is required, use Azure ultra diskshttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/disks-types#ultra-disks for the transaction log. o For M-series virtual machine deployments consider Write Acceleratorhttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/how-to-enable-write-accelerator over using Azure ultra disks. o Place tempdbhttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/relational-databases/databases/tempdb-database on the local ephemeral SSD (default D:) drive for most SQL Server workloads that aren't part of Failover Cluster Instance (FCI) after choosing the optimal VM size. o If the capacity of the local drive isn't enough for tempdb, consider sizing up the VM. See Data file caching policieshttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-sql/virtual-machines/windows/performance-guidelines-best-practices-storage?view=azuresql#data-file-caching-policies for more information. o For FCI place tempdb on the shared storage. o If the FCI workload is heavily dependent on tempdb disk performance, then as an advanced configuration place tempdb on the local ephemeral SSD (default D:) drive, which isn't part of FCI storage. This configuration will need custom monitoring and action to ensure the local ephemeral SSD (default D:) drive is available all the time as any failures of this drive won't trigger action from FCI.

I just know that I have had in about a month, give or take, at least 2 - 3 cases where this is directly listed as a config issue in the PerfInsights and when I informed the customer, not that this is true, just that this is what they said, they said they didn't do it that it came installed that way from the marketplace. And I hear this from every customer I address this with that has it on the OS disk.

I just didn't know if there was maybe a document that would come with any marketplace SQL server that properly guides them through properly setting it up. We'd cut our tickets by a lot if customers would just configure their SQL correctly.

I understand if this is not possible, but if we can, that would save the customer and us a lot of time. Or have it as a document that must be filled out/followed, before a customer can open a ticket. Something that holds them accountable for screwing up their own configurations for the SQL.

Best regards, Cassey

Cassey Maier Microsoft Azure Technical Support Customer Services and Support Working Hours: Email: Office Phone Sun -Weds 9:00 am - 8:00 pm CST @.@.> +1 (701) 281-7508 X17508

If you need to work with another Support Engineer outside of my working hours, please send email to @.@.> with your case number, and availability.

We are always interested to hear your feedback. Please feel free to reach my manager regarding the level of service you have received. enter manager @.@.>.

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From: Pam Lahoud @.> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 4:05 PM To: MicrosoftDocs/azure-docs @.> Cc: Cassey Maier @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [MicrosoftDocs/azure-docs] Need to add info regarding not putting SQL workload on the OS (Issue #97774)

@camaierhttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcamaier&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cd60fd0aca98b49d47d3108dadd560f8e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065658955944379%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=spirxj0GMNghcKsQbkZqaThsafVc4ZsGA9H3%2FW%2FLLtA%3D&reserved=0 If the customer uses a SQL Server marketplace image with the default settings, the only thing that should get installed on the OS disk is the SQL binaries and the system databases. User data files and log files will go to their respective drives (based on the default storage configuration settings) and tempdb will go on the D drive if it is available. We also outline this best practice in the Storage section of this checklist.

Do we need to reword this somehow to make it clearer?

Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftDocs%2Fazure-docs%2Fissues%2F97774%23issuecomment-1349839752&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cd60fd0aca98b49d47d3108dadd560f8e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065658955944379%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hRRnpf4O7qLvOkZiMR73tbWQqrpXfwkGC%2FJhJpIdDp0%3D&reserved=0, or unsubscribehttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FARDTXKU32PM7XVXSVLWQTALWNDXIJANCNFSM6AAAAAAQATZ5ZE&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cd60fd0aca98b49d47d3108dadd560f8e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065658955944379%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7XvEh1ZcIeZqYgsjKBSwlxffFTc6TIY5eKlzEJonjPo%3D&reserved=0. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.@.>>

camaier avatar Dec 13 '22 22:12 camaier

@camaier There is a document that talks about how to set up a marketplace image: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-sql/virtual-machines/windows/create-sql-vm-portal?view=azuresql#storage-configuration

Honestly though, a customer would really have to go out of their way to mess this up, it defaults to all the correct settings. The only way data and log would end up on the OS drive is if the customer installs SQL Server on their own, then the default is to put everything on the C drive. I wonder if these customers are not actually using SQL Server marketplace images. Maybe they are deploying Windows images and then installing SQL Server themselves?

bluefooted avatar Dec 13 '22 22:12 bluefooted

Hello,

Unfortunately, I have seen several marketplace image, as per ASC, and we ran a PerfInsights it came up with that there was a mixture of data and logs on almost all their disks including the OS and when asked about it they said they just used a marketplace image and that's how it was setup.

So not sure if it's an incorrect finding in PerfInsights or, the marketplace isn't setting up as nicely as we once thought. Maybe the last marketplace image update screwed that up. I don't know. I'm just going based off what I've seen from my Cx's so I thought I'd reach out on it and see what we could do.

I'm at a total lost cause we're saying one thing they are saying another. I guess ignore this until I can test and show you the proof of what I'm talking about. But I'm in training this week so it will have to wait.

Best regards, Cassey

Cassey Maier Microsoft Azure Technical Support Customer Services and Support Working Hours: Email: Office Phone Sun -Weds 9:00 am - 8:00 pm CST @.@.> +1 (701) 281-7508 X17508

If you need to work with another Support Engineer outside of my working hours, please send email to @.@.> with your case number, and availability.

We are always interested to hear your feedback. Please feel free to reach my manager regarding the level of service you have received. enter manager @.@.>.

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From: Pam Lahoud @.> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 5:00 PM To: MicrosoftDocs/azure-docs @.> Cc: Cassey Maier @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [MicrosoftDocs/azure-docs] Need to add info regarding not putting SQL workload on the OS (Issue #97774)

@camaierhttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcamaier&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cfc69fbaaaf4c4dfa4fb708dadd5db7d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065691827515537%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KWmWupOMeys%2B%2B1wVRhutsGBxHaBb%2BrT2QqscoXpZkSc%3D&reserved=0 There is a document that talks about how to set up a marketplace image: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-sql/virtual-machines/windows/create-sql-vm-portal?view=azuresql#storage-configurationhttps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flearn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fazure%2Fazure-sql%2Fvirtual-machines%2Fwindows%2Fcreate-sql-vm-portal%3Fview%3Dazuresql%23storage-configuration&data=05%7C01%7CCassandra.Maier%40microsoft.com%7Cfc69fbaaaf4c4dfa4fb708dadd5db7d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638065691827515537%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SqyLHQ8QYmZynb9iBRSdxIVfqAv5pTBpqjJS1bR8Gs0%3D&reserved=0

Honestly though, a customer would really have to go out of their way to mess this up, it defaults to all the correct settings. The only way data and log would end up on the OS drive is if the customer installs SQL Server on their own, then the default is to put everything on the C drive. I wonder if these customers are not actually using SQL Server marketplace images. Maybe they are deploying Windows images and then installing SQL Server themselves?

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camaier avatar Dec 13 '22 23:12 camaier

@camaier OK that's fair. I'm happy to work with you on getting to the bottom of this. I will start an internal thread with you for more details.

bluefooted avatar Dec 13 '22 23:12 bluefooted

Hi @camaier , thanks for contacting Microsoft! The default behavior when deploying a marketplace image is to place the data and log files on a separate drive. If you have cases where that's not happening, please bring those directly to the PG as that's not the expected behavior. I'll go ahead and close out this Git Issue since there isn't anything we can do to improve this from the docs side. However, please feel free to comment should you need anything further.

Thanks again for reaching out and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day! Masha from the SQL Docs team #please-close

MashaMSFT avatar Mar 17 '23 17:03 MashaMSFT