PlanarAlly
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Kruptein
[FEAT] Add Percentile dice rolls.
This can be done in a few ways, I guess.
One die could be a different colour from the other.
You could have 2 dice of 10's and 1's
Or actually have a d100 die. (yeah, I have seen them in real life)
Not sure which is preferable, to be honest. Because I have used them all in my time playing RPGs.
The d100 is a pita. I have one and it's horrible to roll due to size and surfaces. I prefer the 10 and 1, most clear results and roll pretty natural. No issues of which color is what.
I actually have a d10 with 10/20/30/... as a separate model. I hadn't added it yet because unlike other combinations of dice the meaning of a percentile die + a d10 can differ per system or by preference. (e.g. 0 + 00 usually means 100 and is thus not simply an addition like other dice rolls).
Now there is not really a problem with adding custom logic for that case, my main concern however is, what should happen if someone rolls a percentile die + a d12 or, 2 percentile die, or any other combination of die that is not just 1 percentile + 1d10.
It can be argued that there shouldn't be a reason for such a roll to be made, but either I need to explicitly prohibit it in the UI or have some rule to process these rolls.
Does anybody know what other die rolling programs do in this case ? (be it virtual or textual)
Actually misread he comment. It terms of how to present to maybe you just need to copy teal
http://a.teall.info/dice/
Not the percentile dice is JUST the tens. You have to add a d10 to it to make d100. Seems logical to me as it still give you a summation
That has very inconsistent behaviour imo. I rolled a d100 that landed on 00 and a d12 that landed on 10, it gave 0 + 10 = 10, but a d100 on 90 + d10 on 0 gave 90+ 10=100.
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 00:33 develroo, @.***> wrote:
Actually misread he comment. It terms of how to present to maybe you just need to copy teal
http://a.teall.info/dice/
Not the percentile dice is JUST the tens. You have to add a d10 to it to make d100. Seems logical to me as it still give you a summation
— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Kruptein/PlanarAlly/issues/966#issuecomment-1159575991, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAN3BOOTPDMHZ2YN6PJZKYLVPZFCZANCNFSM5Y4B4YUQ . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>
Well, the two dice in combination are just a representation for a single d100, so, mechanically, a d% or d100 should be treated like a single die with 100 faces. Normal rules on summing up dice should apply, whatever they are.
Also, 00+0 should be treated like 100. I am not a aware of any game that does percentages from 0 to 99 instead of 1 to 100. In case of doubt, add a configuration option to treat 0+00 as zero instead of 100.
Just my two cents.
Well kinda sorta. a d10 is 1-10 a d100 is 00 -90 so it is a little odd but not really too strange.
Thinking about this some more, I think the problem is 0. In so much as are we to represent 0-100 or 1-100. Going back to the coloured die paradigm that inherently limited it to 11 -100 so 1-100 I feel is more 'natural' as any other dies we roll cannot roll a 0 either. As to the logic to represent it, the closest we can get to 1-100 is like the above model of d10 = 1-10 and d% =((10-100) -10)
You basically ignore 0.
Yes, the problem is 0. But, actually, you are either representing 0-99 or 1-100. 0-100 are not 100 but 101 possible outcomes of a roll.
Well no. As I outlines d10=1-10`` d%=((10-100)-10). That is the only way to really represent 1-100 with 2 die. The reason I use that notation is that programmatically, it is easier to apply values to d% in the same way you do to d10. d% is basically ((d10*10) -10) as d10 does not have a zero value, it means the percentile cannot have a zero value either.
Either way, it is just easier to forget zero and simplify the calculations. A d% will never be rolled alone so it should just be paired with a d10 automatically and if needed to differentiate between that d10 and others it can be a different colour for the percentile die, and it's counterpart.
In so much as are we to represent 0-100 or 1-100.
you are either representing 0-99 or 1-100. 0-100 are not 100 but 101 possible outcomes of a roll.
Where are you saying it is representing 101? The maximum d% can reach is 90 because you subtract 10 from it. a d10 can only represent 1-10. I am failing to see your grievance, sorry.
This is what I meant with, it all depends on which system and which preference.
The default rules, which you can change as you please, for dnd 5e is that a d100 represents 0-90 with the special interaction that 0 on a d100 AND 0 on a d10 represents 100.
This entire discussion you two are having is about 2 different ways to interpret things and that is the entire reason why I haven't included it yet.
The ultimate end solution is that this should be configurable by the user.
@develroo First quote above quotes you, second quote quotes me.
Either way,
as d10 does not have a zero value, it means the percentile cannot have a zero value either
both d10/d% absolutely can have a zero value. It's even printed on most (=all) of them.
It depends on whether you want to display 0-99 or 1-100.
0–99: Simply add up the displayed values of d10 and d%, both zero-values counting as zero. 00 + 0 = zero, 10+ 0 = ten, 10 + 2 = twelve.
1–100: Different ways. Either the above with the 00 + 0 = hundred exception. Or you treat 0 as ten, but keep treating 00 as zero. => 00 + 1 = one, 00 + 0 = ten, 90 + 0 = hundred. I have to admit that last one's a bit weird.
So, there are even three ways of interpreting the d10/d% combination. I'm sure there are more.
I concur that this should be configurable by users (and my apologies for the snarky comment that exactly this was the reason why I argued against a dice-tool in the first place. No offense intended.).
Well, I can't think of a system that employs 0-100, 0-99, maybe. So to my mind there are only 2 paradigms. 0-99 or 1-100. Both are pretty easy to calculate without needed to massively change how d10 is calculated.
Either you take d10 as 1-10 or 0-9
d% will stay the same as ((10-100)-10)
As 0-9 you get 0-99. As 1-10 you get 1-100.
As I keep repeating: 0-100 is not possible on a "d100" as 0-100 are, in total, 101 possible values.
We keep arguing over something that's probably a typo on your side (yesterday, see quotes) that you clearly understood correctly and that I mis-interpreted as an error in thinking while it was an error in typing. My apologies.
As I keep repeating: 0-100 is not possible on a "d100" as 0-100 are, in total, 101 possible values.
We keep arguing over something that's probably a typo on your side (yesterday, see quotes) that you clearly understood correctly and that I mis-interpreted as an error in thinking while it was an error in typing. My apologies.
That is my point 0-100 is not needed so we can ignore it. 0-99, perhaps, 1-100 certainly. I can't really see any use for any other percentile combinations myself.
So, we have at least three methods of how to represent both 0-99 and 1-100 on the "two-dice-d100". I'm not talking math here, because the dice tool gives users visual dice that have to be consistent with the summed up value, regardless whether we add up dice individually or just get one random number and display it with two dice.
Next problem includes operations (i.e. add/substract to/from other dice etc.). With our "two-dice-d100" this is easy, because we only have one value per "two-dice-d100", be it within 0-99 or 1-100. Yet, the next question is whether d% can be rolled individually (I'd argue yes, because it's possible that some rpg would work just like that. "why would you want to do this" is not a valid question) and, again, whether 00 is equal to zero or hundred.
This will end in a configuration hell of our own making. :sweat_smile:
I don't know visually representing it is really that complicated, nor is summing a percentile roll with other rolls. As I indicated before, a percentile roll will be a pair of dice always, regardless if it is with another die roll. So I would make that pair a different colour, so long as it is consistent.
Two dice representing 0-99 or 1-100 depending on a config flag. Programmatically it is just as easy to sum percentiles first as it is to subtract or add other die values to it.
I think what @Kruptein is asking, is just how we implement this? To my mind, there are not too many variations to make it complex. We either represent 0-99 or 1-100. Visually, they will both look exactly the same. Programmatically, the d10 will be either 0-9 or 1-10 depending on the flag set.
My problem with "visually representing" is that presentation of dice needs to be consistent with presented number.
If a player is used to "90+0 = hundred", they will be confused seeing 90 and 0 on the dice and 90 (ninety) in the results.
Basically, I don't want users to misunderstand PA like the two of us keep misunderstanding each other.
We either represent 0-99 or 1-100. Visually, they will both look exactly the same.
No. That's exactly the point here. Depending on your interpretation of the two dice, 90 and 0 can either mean ninety or hundred.
Well then it should be not hard to make that model work too. As I mentioned percentile die are not rolled singly they are rolled as a pair. That means the d10 in the percentile is already a different model As it is going to be visually different to a normal d10 anyway, and have 0 marked as 10. The d% die does not need to be changed. So you can either mark 0 as 10 or 0 as zero on the companion die depending on the flag you set.
