KoffeinFlummi
Artillery System
Merging #987 and #1042.
So, artillery system, what to do?
The computer is fairly realistic AFAIK for the time period A3 is set it, but it's not exactly challenging. Feel free to post your ideas.
I personally would like a system that is appropriate for Arma's setting but a bit more challenging than point-and-click.
The computer is fairly realistic AFAIK for the time period A3
True. As I stated before I would love AGM to improve computerless mortars too (mods or all in arma). As for Arma3 computer guided mortars Just a couple of ideas:
- Have the computer calculate horizontal and vertical angles and propeller charges and let the user introduce those to the mortar manually (somehow) because...
- Have the mortar rounds be affected by wind. This would not be considered by the computer so manual corrections would be necesary.
This manual setting of angles and propeller would work for older mortars too. Those would require range tables to estimate instead of the computers.
Have the mortar rounds be affected by wind
This and someone on the ground using the Vector to correct shots. :+1:
Have the mortar rounds be affected by wind. This would not be considered by the computer so manual corrections would be necesary.
They are. Atleast they were the last time commy and me tested it.
The way ammunition is used could be more diverse. -Airburst for HE shells. Maybe add the height in which the shell should explode. People could add a heightnumber in the interface. -Same for illuminating cartridge. Sometimes it would be nice to adjust the height. -In A2 with the Paladinmod it was possible to use MRSI ( Miltiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI). I really miss this feature because it gave one self-propelled artillery way more firepower. That feature would be possible with different elevation angles and flyspeeds of the round. MRSI is a must-have for sf artillery and it's a important element in many armys which have sf artillery in their service. The missing MRSI really bothers me since I'm playing arma.
I have no problem with the arcady Arty Computer but I really miss the diversity and the flexibility of the artillery in Arma. The way ACE handled it does not fit for 2020-2035. Therefore more options in use for artillery would be nice. THE MRSI would be really a nice feature. Artillery in A3 shouldn't be more difficult in usage but offer more options in usage.
My two Cents :)
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7XFwT4REHg&feature=player_detailpage#t=80 This explains MRSI pretty easy
I promised to write something on this topic but I'm lacking the time recently. Anyways, the way BI implemented artillery computers is oversimplified and at the same time more complex than in real life. Have you tried to aim at certain coordinates yet? It takes ages to find them on the shitty map while in real life you just enter them into your computer FULLSTOP.
If you really want to tackle the way artillery is handled you would need to adress at least the following points:
- proper ballistics for artillery rounds
- proper artillery computer interface which adresses the way how fire missions are done in real life
- proper tools for the JFS team (DAGR)
- more ammuntion types and fuses
There are 5 ways (open for more suggestions) how a fire mission is called in while the third is (to my knowledge) the most common.
- Simple target at grid coordinates + dimension
- Target at grid coordinates + dimension + target axis (Zielachse)
- posiition forward artillery observer + distance to target + Heading in angular mil to target (Sehsteifen) + possiblity to correct shots to the left/right and up/down relative to the positon of the spotter.
- Pre defined point
- Pre defined area
The artillery interface should be able to accomodate all those possibilities. Also please don't start to guess what might be and not might be possible in the future. The timeframe we are looking at is only 10 years ahead. Technology won't change that drastically in the next few years (especially with such low military budgets). We also need to distinguish between artillery with and without computers.
They are. Atleast they were the last time commy and me tested it.
I'll double check that in the following days and report back. I've never noticed any wind effect, so either I was not paying any attention (probably!) or the effect is very low (and probably shouldn't be). AFAIK mortar rounds do not have air friction either (I guess the artillery computer programmers were to lazy to actually iterate the trayectory calculation in order to aim the mortar).
I like the ideas above, right now it does seem fairly simplistic. If you're gonna enhance it then I'd like to request for a way to read 8 digit grids (range finder linked to some sort of device or so?) and for the arty gunner an 8 digit grid map
The artillery CAN be difficult even WITH computers, if you let the wind to interfere with the projectile. An arti computer shouldn't be able to tell all the data of all the winds along the entire flight, and the acumulated effect should be more or less unpredictable. Using a bullet-wind mod before, and in that mod, all preojectile, including arti shells, are affected. Thus you have to fire in the computer, AND have someone to observe and tell where the next round should be placed to correctly hit the target. This had to be done quick before the wind changes again. That was a hell of interesting experience, and used much of my brains out there.
Hey, I've got some suggestions for you.
I'm really keen on Mortars and indirect fire systems. The current method is fine if you disable the computer, something I can see you don't want to do. That's fine, leave the computer in, we can disable it with a bit of code. However I don't know if any of these modifications I'm about to suggest will prevent that. But you guys are the Code Kings, so I'll leave the fine tuning to you :)
Firstly, make it so we can't spin on the mortar. Give us a limited arc, and have to move the mortar using the AGM Interact (which you already have implemented for moving static weapons). Also perhaps a finer way of changing the bearing you're facing - with the mouse it's fine for degrees, but wouldn't be so if we use mils.
Secondly, change the sight to show Mils rather than Degrees. Mils is a more accurate system, and accuracy is key when launching an explosive up to four kilometres away. This would affect the Azimuth and the Elevation. Again, a finer way of changing the elevation.
Would it be possible to manually load the mortar instead of having all these preloaded clips. For simplicities sake you could just have a backpack which 'carries' the rounds and then having to remove each round, prep it for firing and loading it into the mortar. This will probably mean a reduction in the amount of rounds which can be carried - currently 32 HE, 8 Smoke and 8 ILLUM, and each 81mm round IRL is approximately 4.41kg - however perhaps it can be organised the backpack can be loaded so we can carry the rounds we want.
Unfortunately the mortar is way less than it should be (currently 25.56kg compared to the ~30kg of the M224A1). So it ends up as a trade between functionality or realism. Perhaps we can pass it off as futuristic light-weight materials. Might also be why the Mortar rounds weigh less?
Once we've got simple things down we can worry about different fuze types for the rounds :) However one thing I would like to see changed is the difference between the Flare rounds. If you fire a flare round on Close charge it will burn for 40s. If you fire it on Medium it will burn for 20s. If you fire it on Far it will only burn for 5s! Ah well, it's probably a BI bug.
Obviously point one and two can be applied to 155mm Artillery as well.
Thanks for the thoughts! It's going to be a little while before we will be dealing with this though...
Just pitching in here.
I would love the option to setup Artillery the way it used to be done in ACE.
Sounds like a lot of contributions so far have simply referenced adding value to the built in Arty Computer system. Which I do support for simple implimentations. HOWEVER we've got a huge number of members of our Unit 3CB who would love to utilise Realistic Artillery.
I also think there is a good argument for it. Artillery is hugely OP for most usage situations and needs some sort of balance in place. A complicated setup that requires dedication and skill to use IS that balance for me. Artillery (and in some ways Armour) are for me the areas that still seem arcady - if we could add some AGM loving to get it up to ACE standards I believe it would add a huge amount to the game.
By all means this ought to be Optional - selectable either by specific Arty Piece or by a map module.
Anyway hoping there are some other Arty Supporters out there.
SJ
I agree with serjames wholeheartedly.
Fancy features and smart computers are great, but doing things the way they were done (and still are by most insurgent forces) is really necessary. Not many people play artillery/mortar but one of the best feelings you can get is when properly landing a mortar after calculating everything on your own.
This opens a very interesting and a lot more balanced aspect for PVP as well!
I recomend you see the Drongo's Artillery addon. http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23984
I use in my comunity, and is an interesting. The acuracy of the artillery is not the best, but you have many options, type of shell, number of rounds, fuze, angle of attack, type of mission (FFE, PLOT...), adjust solution after, etc.. Can you get ideas from this addon.
