離 / 璃 / etc

[Thermospore]

(refer to https://github.com/KanjiVG/kanjivg/issues/99#issuecomment-68050902)

Hello, are we sure the ム in these is 3 strokes, not 2? I'm seeing conflicting sources online (some of them trace back to current or older versions of this very dictionary)

this website says both

this 漢検 dictionary says 2

I have copies of the 2017 漢検トレーニング２ and 2018 漢検小学生 3ds games (official 漢検 products, for what it's worth) and they both say 2

I don't have any paper 漢検 dictionaries to check unfortunately

[Thermospore]

found an insightful note on the site mentioned in the issue above

【画数について】 の「ム」形はに合わせて3画と数えられており、明朝体のデザインによっては3画を強調しようと1画目の終端と2画目の先端とのずれ具合を大きくするものがある。 3画と数えるのは単に分類を目的とした画数順字書の性格上、統一性をもたせたものであって、筆記する際にわざわざ離して書かなければならないというものではない。よって、筆写の場合には字形に倣って「冂＋ム」と書けばよく、18画となるが、画数は19画という状況になっている。 ※ 当サイトでは、筆写の字形に倣って、書き方を18画のアニメーションで示しています。

[benkasminbullock]

There are two variants, and KanjiVG currently uses one variant in some cases and the other variant in other cases, such as 079bb. I don't know what the rationale is for choosing which one to use. I don't think Ulrich Apel reads these bug reports, so I'll post a note on the mailing list to ask for clarification.

[Thermospore]

sounds good thanks

[benkasminbullock]

I asked here but as usual there was no response, so perhaps we can think of a solution. How about a variant with the two strokes joined? We need to think of a name for the variant too.

[Thermospore]

hmm to be honest I'm not super familiar with how the database here works. These are the variants right?

I assume for each kanji with this element, one way of writing would be picked as the consistent default, and the other way would be added as a variant? If so that sounds good to me

I'm not sure which way should be the default though, I'd lean towards going with whatever 漢検 says

[benkasminbullock]

The references currently used by the project are here.

[benkasminbullock]

Looking at the files in question, we have, in form "file kanji count", where count is the stroke count of the part, we have

064d2-Kaisho.svg 擒 10
064d2.svg 擒 11
06a8e-Kaisho.svg 檎 10
06a8e.svg 檎 11
06f13-Kaisho.svg 漓 10
06f13.svg 漓 11
07483-Kaisho.svg 璃 10
07483-KaishoVtLst.svg 璃 10
07483.svg 璃 11
079bb.svg 离 10
079bd-Kaisho.svg 禽 10
079bd.svg 禽 11
07c6c-Kaisho.svg 籬 11
07c6c.svg 籬 11
096e2-Kaisho.svg 離 11
096e2.svg 離 11
09b51-Kaisho.svg 魑 10
09b51.svg 魑 11
09ed0-Kaisho.svg 黐 10
09ed0.svg 黐 11

so in almost all cases except 096e2-Kaisho.svg and 07c6c-Kaisho.svg the "-Kaisho" variant of the character handles this difference. Since nobody responded on the mailing list, perhaps we can just go ahead and change these two and then this issue may be closed. Unfortunately at the moment I have no real way of editing the line data except by trial and error.

[Thermospore]

ok sounds good, I'll just trust your judgement since I'm not too familiar!

so the default will always be 3 strokes, and the 2 stroke version will be in the kaisho variant?

Would it be a good idea to give these their own variant name, so they can be uniquely identified? or is it proper that they just be grouped in with all the other kaisho variants

[benkasminbullock]

I don't have a good way to edit the line information at the moment so this change is still pending.

[benkasminbullock]

Sorry that "close" was accidental.

[Thermospore]

ah gotcha