Avoid tagging service building as a substation if it exists inside one already

[andrewharvey]

I found that when a building=service existed within a larger way for a power substation, SCEE would still ask me and tag the building as a substation despite it being inside one, resulting in the substation being double tagged.

[mcliquid]

Why would it not be possible to operate a minor substation (below 10 kV) within a bigger (transmission) substation (over 100 kV)?

[mnalis]

Also, could you link to the area where you found the problematic elements @andrewharvey to better understand the problem? And which quest ("What kind of service building is this" ?) / which answer exactly did you give so that it tagged it as power=substation?

[andrewharvey]

It's this service building https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/595670802 inside this substation https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/257031979. If you delete the operator and utility tags (which originally was the case) you'll be presented with the service building quest that allows you to choose substation in which case it'll be tagged as power=substation however the substation is already mapped as the site area so you end up creating a duplicate feature.

Why would it not be possible to operate a minor substation (below 10 kV) within a bigger (transmission) substation (over 100 kV)?

Yes it's possible, but the issue is SCEE doesn't render the existing substation at all so as a user you're none the wiser that you're adding a duplicate. If you want to go and add a one inside yourself as a new feature in SCEE that should be fine, but we're talking about simply responding to a quest.

And which quest ("What kind of service building is this" ?) / which answer exactly did you give so that it tagged it as power=substation?

"What kind of service building is this?" -> "Electrical substation" gives the tags power=substation + substation=distribution (which the latter is also a problem because we never actually selected that this was a distribution substation, it could also be some other level of substation).

[mcliquid]

it'll be tagged as power=substation however the substation is already mapped as the site area so you end up creating a duplicate feature.

In my opinion, this is just how SCEE works - after all, we're talking about the Expert Edition here. The quest is automatically disabled, and enabling it requires confirming an explicit warning message. If you accept this, you should also know that you can simply skip the quest or disable the quest type altogether.

Yes it's possible, but the issue is SCEE doesn't render the existing substation at all so as a user you're none the wiser that you're adding a duplicate.

You could add a getHighlightedElements to the quest. Would you like to give it a try in the code?

"What kind of service building is this?" -> "Electrical substation" gives the tags power=substation + substation=distribution (which the latter is also a problem because we never actually selected that this was a distribution substation, it could also be some other level of substation).

When creating the quest, I assumed that a substation=transmission could never be located inside a building. I still believe this to be the case. Power ratings above 100kV are located in open spaces and not inside buildings. In this case, building is incorrect. However, as far as I know, it is not the responsibility of SC / SCEE to correct incorrect tagging. Would it help to adjust the terms?

[andrewharvey]

In my opinion, this is just how SCEE works

Imagine you can add a bench via + > Bench, but then SCEE doesn't show any benches on the map. so you'd never know if you're adding benches that already existing in OSM or not. That's how this quest works at the moment.

You could add a getHighlightedElements to the quest. Would you like to give it a try in the code?

I can but I don't know what that does/what that's for. It might be better to try and get an icon for a substation so that the existing substation is selectable.

When creating the quest, I assumed that a substation=transmission could never be located inside a building. I still believe this to be the case. Power ratings above 100kV are located in open spaces and not inside buildings. In this case, building is incorrect. However, as far as I know, it is not the responsibility of SC / SCEE to correct incorrect tagging. Would it help to adjust the terms?

I don't think the tagging is fully resolved in Australia where I'm mapping, but on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:substation there is both substation=distribution and substation=minor_distribution and both could be inside a building.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Utilities_and_infrastructure#Power_Network

This one I came across was a 132kV -> 11kV substation which is typically partially inside a building.

[mcliquid]

I can but I don't know what that does/what that's for.

Here's a screenshot how it will look like:

I don't think the tagging is fully resolved in Australia where I'm mapping, but on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:substation there is both substation=distribution and substation=minor_distribution and both could be inside a building.

You can definitely select both. The value transmission cannot be selected because (to my knowledge) it never fits into a single building. A larger (distribution) substation can simply be selected with “Electrical substation.” And for substation=minor_distribution, simply select “Small electrical substation.”